[FloorMaven]

There's no documented evidence to support the theory that MVE travels horizontally under a vapor retarder. Therefore, perimeter venting is over-kill. Also running it up the wall is unnecessary as the edges of the flooring are moisture resistant. The moisture protection is really for the adhesive's sake.

6 mil stretched directly onto a slab is adequate protection IMO. If you need seams over-lap 1-2 ft & tape with triple layer over-lap of 2" polyethylene packing tape. Careful to work out crease folds as they tend to show through.

[FloorMaven]

Originally Posted by Incognito

I really like the Bostic MPV4 barrier...

I find the trowelable retarders harder to find with the advent and advancement of the dual purpose adhesive/retarder technology.

[Incognito]

Originally Posted by FloorMaven

There's no documented evidence to support the theory that MVE travels horizontally under a vapor retarder. Therefore, perimeter venting is over-kill. Also running it up the wall is unnecessary as the edges of the flooring are moisture resistant. The moisture protection is really for the adhesive's sake.

6 mil stretched directly onto a slab is adequate protection IMO. If you need seams over-lap 1-2 ft & tape with triple layer over-lap of 2" polyethylene packing tape. Careful to work out crease folds as they tend to show through.

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I tend to agree that on vinyl products it's overkill to cove the plastic. If it's there in the instructions and that Allure product fails so frequently-----you'd be nuts to skip that step.

I've only used plastic under floating engineered or laminated stuff so telegraphing wasn't a concern. In those instances I was simply reading and following the instructions that came from the box. I do these kinds of floors pretty seldom and those directions seem to be constantly changing and product specific.

[FloorMaven]

Here's a snippet from the specs. I tried to upload the pdf but the forum limits the file size to 19.5kb.

Please note: Allure is water resistant and will withstand holding water for short periods of time if the product is installed properly. Allure is not flood proof! Allure is not meant as water proofing material nor a solution for moisture. Moisture intrusion is a totally different situation that can arise with new and old concrete that exhibits very high levels of hydrostatic pressure in combination with very high levels of alkalinity. This combination provides substance that is highly corrosive. No floor covering including Allure can withstand the long term corrosive nature of this chemical. Hydro static pressure exceeding 8 lbs using the calcium chloride test method and or a P.H test indicates alkalinity levels in excess of 9, steps must be taken to separate Allure from the source of the corrosive effect of this chemical. Excessive moisture in the subfloor can cause mold and mildew, and other moisture related issues including but not limited to trapping of the moisture emissions under Allure. Under these circumstances the concrete needs to be treated with a floor sealer that seals the concrete under the 8 lbs. or a moisture/vapor barrier (6 mil poly) is installed. This is necessary to avoid the corrosive effects. Newly poured concrete floors must cure for a minimum of 90 days. It is the responsibility of the home owner and the installer to make sure that any moisture or alkalinity issues are resolved prior to installing Allure.

They don't provide specs on how to install the 6 mil. Even though the OP claims the basement is occasionally damp, he's assuming the sub-floor has excessive MVE. It could simply be poor ventilation. Maybe he should do a simple mat test on the slab.

[Ernesto]

Originally Posted by FloorMaven

There's no documented evidence to support the theory that MVE travels horizontally under a vapor retarder. Therefore, perimeter venting is over-kill. Also running it up the wall is unnecessary as the edges of the flooring are moisture resistant. The moisture protection is really for the adhesive's sake.

.

The maven has finally arrived!
I totally agree with your asessement. But you know those manufacturers and their hired guns report what they see, course most will not pull base back especially if it is glued or fastened and caulked.

Who was the genius who thought up that little gem of an installation practice? I had never had an issue prior to that before they started putting that into installation practices.

[FloorMaven]

Usually the first 4 letter word out of your mouth Ernesto is- TEST. I'm surprised you didn't mention it here. I'm not an advocate of extensive testing, I'm a 'seal it and forget it' guy. That is when it's being done professionally and according to specs.

I believe some technical people decided that a chimney effect was created by covering the slab, forcing the MVE to the perimeter. Usually the 6mil (8mil in the case of the now defunct wilsonart) stopped short of going edge to the edge causing the floor to absorb moisture though the exposed core cut edge. I remember when wilsonart's specs included coating each cut edge with their adhesive/sealer.

In this case and in most involving Allure flooring is that it is chosen for economic reasons though basement floors usually require extra attention, at least more consideration. I think I'd find out if I actually have a MVE problem before I decide how to proceed.

I recently installed about 800 sf on grade concrete.

[Incognito]

Originally Posted by marruda2

4.) Do you have any tips or things to watch out for when installing this type of flooring?

Here is the link to the flooring I plan to install:

Thanks in advance,
Marruda2

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The BIG LIE. If repeated enough everyone believes it.

I QUOTE from the video you linked to:
"With Allure there's no messy adhesive and no floor preparation required."

It should say the adhesive comes on the tongues and grooves (recesses) of the interlocking portions. So there certainly is an adhesive. Because there's an adhesive there's LOTS of obvious considerations about handling the product and the conditions before, during and after the installation. Those can be seen in the FINE PRINT of the disclaimers/waivers written in the instructions and usually somewhere on every box. They don't want you to catch this til the boxes are loaded in the room, opened and you're already knee deep.

To say there's NO floor preparation required is complete and utter nonsense. ANYONE in my industry who would ever say such a thing immediately loses 100% of their credibility. Again, once you're knee deep and the money is in their register they expect you to read the fine print detailing the minimum degree for floor preparation.

Floor preparation is a hot button issue in this industry. More like a hot potato. No one wants to address the reality of the TIME and MONEY necessary because it's really hard to sell the materials when the cost of prep can be TEN times what they've considered spending for the room/house/business/institution.

YES floating floors are designed to minimize this whole disastrous issue. But it doesn't make it go away. Less glue issues, less flatness issues--------by design. Not ZERO glue and ZERO flatness issues. Sure sounds good though at the time of sale. Probably does hold "true" for 80-90% of the sales with decent existing conditions.

A wet basement isn't usually going to fall in that 80-90%

[FloorMaven]

Originally Posted by Incognito

The BIG LIE. If repeated enough everyone believes it.

I QUOTE from the video you linked to:
"With Allure there's no messy adhesive and no floor preparation required."

But the adhesive isn't messy and technically it's sub-floor and substrate preparation that is always necessary in some shape or form. For the sake of argument, "floor" preparation from the manufacturer's perspective as used in their advertising could mean that nothing is required to be done to the flooring prior to laying it down. It could mean that you don't need to wipe the back of the flooring like you would with ceramic, porcelain, stone or vct. You don't need to peel something off the back like with peel and stick tile. You don't need tackless or a pad or other underlayment. It could mean any of that.

Personally, I don't sell "floor preparation" or "floor prep" as those type of things are included in my sq. ft price. I do sell sub-floor and substrate preparation and repair. I think the installation community is doing itself a disservice by using improper nomenclature and labeling everything floor prep.

[Ernesto]

I've installed quite allot of it and not really that concerned seeing the 8lb limit as it is pretty high as far as other resilient floors go. Certainly a test would be a great idea below grade though. Least a ph test. Seeing how the guy only has a couple days to get'r done, the MVP4 and plastic should hold water. And if it didn't, hence the directive to use a click so it would be easy to un-install.

I'd take them seriously cept for the fact they use; speaking of misuse of terminology; hydro static pressure in this sentence;

Hydro static pressure exceeding 8 lbs using the calcium chloride test method and or a P.H test indicates alkalinity levels in excess of 9, steps must be taken to separate Allure from the source of the corrosive effect of this chemical.

I'm surprised you missed that floormaven.

[rugaddict]

i would go with a looselay glass backed sheet vinyl and call it a day