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Steve079

Professional
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Apr 5, 2021
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113
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I've been enjoying this current weather related work slowdown, but went in to do a measure, and swung by the warehouse just to check in. Our general manager, has been manning the warehouse while a replacement is found, and had a couple of the "advanced" apprentices working in a back corner. GM said, "we've been having failures of our glue down vinyl plank" . The shop uses Schonox SL, and Taylor Dynamic adhesive; Ive used both, and haven't had an issue. Floors were installed mostly over concrete, , 2 were over wood, with a subfloor of the usual 4x5 arctic birch UL. I asked them, if on the concrete installs, if the slab had been checked for moisture, were they properly mixing the skim coat, and if the proper amount of adhesive had been used, because I had looked at 3 jobs, one was over a slab below grade, 2 were over wood, and just didn't have enough adhesive.
They guys were working on a test section to see what could be causing the issues, although I had already gone over what I saw. So, I asked, are you mixing the Schonox SL to spec, using the correct sized trowel and allowing proper flash times, and then rolled the floor? " No, we want to do it just like its done on the jobs. " OK, so, lets check this slab real quick with my Tramex, then do half with properly mixed SL, and then use my trowel, just as a control group." Nope, they already had it in their minds, that the products were to blame.
Shop has 1 decent vinyl guy, but the rest are combo guys, very few of their own tools, They have 2 trowels, one for vinyl, carpet tiles, etc, one for patch. None had rollers, there is one in the tool room, but it doesn't leave often. Many have entered the trade, mostly installing floating vinyl plank, and don't really have a grasp of floor prep, or the use of adhesives in general. I was told a year ago that one of the things they wanted me to address, were those issues, but it hasnt happened. Its very frustrating, but it does give me great job security.
 
I always had a saying.. "It doesn't take any longer to do it right than it does to do it wrong"

And it ain't that hard to learn. The instructions are on the bag and on the bucket. Usually with a big picture of the correct trowel... I'll never understand some people.
 
I mentioned that. I don't think either of them had any idea. If something goes sideways on a job, the installer that did it usually does not go back to fix it. No ramifications. Little stuff, they have a assigned repair guy, if its major, then its just gets fixed, repaired or replaced, by another crew.
 
I think Forbo had the blades taped to the bucked lid. You needed a special trowel for the blades to click into. They provided new blades because they wanted you to use a proper sized notch trowel that isn’t worn down. Best way to do that is to tape a new blade to each bucket lid. I never got one of them special trowels, I got the Versa Trowel instead and always kept a bunch of different blades on hand. Blue handle for the win!
 
I think Forbo had the blades taped to the bucked lid. You needed a special trowel for the blades to click into. They provided new blades because they wanted you to use a proper sized notch trowel that isn’t worn down. Best way to do that is to tape a new blade to each bucket lid. I never got one of them special trowels, I got the Versa Trowel instead and always kept a bunch of different blades on hand. Blue handle for the win!
I think you're right... It was Forbo... It was just a narrow blade with teeth that clipped in to a trowel....Versa blade was the whole flat part minus the handle. But I had a red handle... :cool:
 
I remember some brands including a blade taped right to the top of the bucket…
Those were note easy to deal with and we rarely used them. A trowel has to have a very specific flexibility or you spend more time trying to get the application correct than it's worth the free trowel blade insert. They were always WAY too stiff.

In any case at least the dumbass apprentice can see from that blade what the notch is SUPPOSED to be.
 
I think you're right... It was Forbo... It was just a narrow blade with teeth that clipped in to a trowel....Versa blade was the whole flat part minus the handle. But I had a red handle... :cool:
There've been at least 5 varieties of handles and blades for the replacement trowel handles. I still have some of each. Started in '78 and roundabout 80% of my installations were commercial resilient.
 
Those were note easy to deal with and we rarely used them. A trowel has to have a very specific flexibility or you spend more time trying to get the application correct than it's worth the free trowel blade insert. They were always WAY too stiff.

In any case at least the dumbass apprentice can see from that blade what the notch is SUPPOSED to be.
Yea, we always scratched our heads…Tried using one. Kept falling out of the handle…probably had the wrong handle, it was a mess.
 
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Clip-ons fit any trowel and always use duct tape to keep it on and keeps your trowel clean too. Easy clean up. But ya'll know that. It's the youngins that don't. New blade every bucket. That means each guy, specially on concrete.
 
Ahhhhh… Tape… I didn’t think to do that. But I’m no Forbo guy. I can glue down a few small rooms…Even tried my luck heat welding a few seams. They came out ok but I’m no pro. I leave the coving and fancy artwork to the guys that know what you’re doing…😎
 
Clip-ons fit any trowel and always use duct tape to keep it on and keeps your trowel clean too. Easy clean up. But ya'll know that. It's the youngins that don't. New blade every bucket. That means each guy, specially on concrete.
It depends on if you live in LA, NYC or average Joe, Podunk County where commecial jobs happen three times a year.
I'm talking about those big 300 yard jobs.
 
The clip ons I see are always on wood adhesive buckets taped on the inside. They are for laying down a heavier layer of adhesive for moisture blocking over concrete vs the regular trowel. And they have little bumps, nubs or teats that extend out beyound the teeth. Thus giving you a thicker layer of adhesive.
 
The clip ons I see are always on wood adhesive buckets taped on the inside. They are for laying down a heavier layer of adhesive for moisture blocking over concrete vs the regular trowel. And they have little bumps, nubs or teats that extend out beyound the teeth. Thus giving you a thicker layer of adhesive.
Taped on the inside? Can’t say as I’ve ever seen that. And although it can’t hurt, not sure I would trust extra glue alone as a moisture blocker? We always put down a a membrane first if moisture was an issue… Preferably an epoxy.
 
The clip ons I see are always on wood adhesive buckets taped on the inside. They are for laying down a heavier layer of adhesive for moisture blocking over concrete vs the regular trowel. And they have little bumps, nubs or teats that extend out beyound the teeth. Thus giving you a thicker layer of adhesive.
Forbo and some other resilient brands would have these ultra cheap clip-on blades or just a blade that inserted into a special trowel designed for those specific attachments.

We used the Versablade handles with throwaway notched on 4 sides blades rather than pay a union man $50+ an hour to notch---------AND HE'D STILL GET IT WRONG------because hand notching is tedious and kind of stupid for certain notches. It was easy and made sense with the Armstrong steel handle blue steel blades for the VCT notch. Now with the 1/32"x1/32" it's beyond stupid where the spread rate is critical. (telegraphing and adeqaute bond)

I was often sent out to repair and inspect issues. It was almost always TOO MUCH glue.
 
The most recent glue down fail was a medallion vinyl plank installed with Taylor Dynamic. Days after the install, the end joints of the planks were peaked. The list of probable cause is pretty short, but ownership didn't want me to go look at it. Its being explained as an adhesive failure. True but not from faulty product, but from incorrect application.
 
Taped on the inside? Can’t say as I’ve ever seen that. And although it can’t hurt, not sure I would trust extra glue alone as a moisture blocker? We always put down a a membrane first if moisture was an issue… Preferably an epoxy.
Yes a deeper layer. Kinda like using the ole Bostik MVP first, let it set over night then glue wood to that with Bostiks Best. MVP is/was just a urethane that had no additives to keep ridges up and it flattened out. I used it all the time. without fail.
Then the All In One adhesives came out. You use a smaller toothed trowel for installs with no threat of moisture and larger toothed trowels for potential moisture issues.
And when your on concrete on grade there's always the potential for moisture issues. So just do it and sleep better. The customer pays for it anyways.
 

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