anyone installed Cortec Stone products

[highup]

I've heard a few stories that are locking mechanism being brittle because this is a hardcore material. Couple months ago I went to look at one that had separated. It separated in a strange way and I'm going down tomorrow with new material to replace the dining room which is not shown in this picture. The dining room is behind me. Before removing the tiles in the dining room, I'm going to take all the base off to see if it was just fit too tight somewhere. It's a strange way for a floor to separate.
This is an older modular home but it's very nice and the separation point here is probably 3 ft away from the centerline of the home. I don't recall there were any issues with flatness so why it separated is confusing.
Anyway I haven't installed any of this Stone material and curious if this newer product has any issues or things that one might do differently when installing it.

 

[Don Monfils]

CoreTec stone is shit!
We have had multiple jobs fail with different installers.
Core tec and the sales rep say they sell a ton of it and have no issues with it … but they just changed locking mechanism.
I have gone back on many jobs and glued separated joints.

 

[Tile Tom]

My first thought would be subfloor deflection. A lot of modulars use 24" joist spacing with 3/4" particle board. Not acceptable for any floating floor!

Cortec is at the top of my list as far as quality goes. Their products are very stable, especially the spc's. I can't imagine the baseboards being too tight would effect anything.

 

[Don Monfils]

I have installed miles of CoreTec…
The “Stone” product is a whole different animal

 

[highup]

I have installed miles of CoreTec…
The “Stone” product is a whole different animal

What did you glue it with?
Just to help, is there any special way to lock and tap it together..... I mean a special technique specific for this product.
One installer said it was a very difficult to get the joints together and stay together or that they chipped for broke off easily making the joints fail.
What you said seems to concur with with the other installers said. It's not like the manufacturer doesn't know there's a problem.
I hope this new batch of material that I have has the same lock system because I'm only removing part of the job.
When I get to job done in this dining room I may squirt 1/2" or 3/8" inch globs of silicone here and there around the perimeter have the installation, so that the material is somewhat locked in. At least that way the product can't separate as easily and move apart towards the expansion gap.
Does it cut okay with a good carbide blade. I just bought a brand new aluminum cutting Freud blade. It looks to have zero rake, and it's a tri-chip design.
I do not have or have access to a cutter.

 

[highup]

My first thought would be subfloor deflection. A lot of modulars use 24" joist spacing with 3/4" particle board. Not acceptable for any floating floor!

Cortec is at the top of my list as far as quality goes. Their products are very stable, especially the spc's. I can't imagine the baseboards being too tight would effect anything.

I didn't mean the baseboards were too tight. I meant if I take the baseboards off I can see if there's no expansion gap.
My plan was to see if I could determine why the materials separated where I did.
I brought home two pieces of Cortec Stone to examine them.
The first thing I noticed was how hard the core material is. Maybe it's so hard, meaning not pliable at all that it's hardness contributes to the locks not holding.

 

[C.J.]

Never worked with that specific floor but I wouldn’t burn up a ‘spensive blade on it unless you’re talkin bout a $20 7.25” blade. I save my old blades for sharpening and I’d pull out a trash one for my table saw if that’s what you’re using cus that product will kill a blade quick. Might even put a cheap 7.25” blade on my 10” TS, or use your skill saw, and throw it away when you’re done just cus it’ll be cheaper in the end.

Another thing to ponder is you’re workin in a manufactured home? The steel frame moves with the seasonal changes and that could be why the floor pulled apart.

 

[Tile Tom]

If there was no expansion space you would be dealing with buckling, not separation.
The material itself is dimensionally stable. It doesn't really expand or contract.

My money is still on deflection. Or someone went to town with their beating block and destroyed the locking mechanisms.

 

[highup]

I didn't tell Don that other installers mentioned to me that the joints do not hold up or they become uncoupled. So he just said what local installers have said about the joints coming undone.
I'm not about to blame this on deflection. That's typical reasoning with standard click floors but this stuff is different.
You can see kitchen on one side of the opening that I showed. Behind me is a 12x14 dining room. If the installer when transitioning from one room to the other didn't have his lines as straight and true as they should have been, maybe it created some tension and that narrowest part between the two rooms would be the weak link.
If on that same wall he had a couple of planks touching it, than any expansion would be pulling against the opening between the cabinet and refrigerator. I'm not saying that he locked it in around the entire room. All it would take is fitting it tight in one place.
Like I said, I need to take the base up first and maybe it will tell me something.
Don mentioned that they knew they had issues with this floor and they changed the joint configuration. They wouldn't do that just for the hell of it, as they know there are issues with the joints in this product. There's no other reason that they would change the dimensions or configuration of the locking joint. So far it seems that Don has backed up what local installers have said about the product.
I will find out today.

 

[Don Monfils]

I have opened a box and lifted out 1/2 of a box and the locking mechanism breaks off in my hands.
I have used IVC seam sealer and also gorilla super glue to glue end joints back together.
I did a few tile replacements and it makes dust from hell. A carbide jigsaw blade works great on this stuff.

 

[highup]

Thanks Don. I took nine boxes of material that had been ordered for replacement of the dining room and partly into the kitchen.
I took the nine boxes down and didn't unload them ....yet.
I took off some base and pulled two tiles out in one corner. I wanted to see which side of the house the installer started on. Of course he started on this wall which is the outside wall of the home, then work this way towards the kitchen down the hallway and backwards into a bathroom.
After removing a couple of tiles I decided to look the kitchen over for some reason and I noticed there were new gaps, one right in front of the sink.
That kind of screwed up today's plans because we weren't replacing the entire job, we were replacing the dining room all the way up to the separated planks in the kitchen..... So now the kitchen has issues.
I have heard this has cost Shaw millions.
I took one of the new boards which is supposedly with the better lock on it and laid one of the original planks on top of it.
The locking edge seems to be more crisp and maybe a thousands or two thicker.
I'm not sure that's good enough because one of the installers said they've also had issues with this new version or improved lock.

 

[highup]

If this job ends up getting redone I think I can start at the kitchen but I'd have to work myself backwards as far as the tongue and groove goes. The cabinets were installed after the flooring was put down and I would have the option along the kitchen counter to leave a two and a half inch or so strip of the existing material in place. I could hot glue some wood spacers against the toe kick and onto the edge of the tiles that are under the cabinet. But like I said once I got started I would have to install this material in a backwards sequence, going through the kitchen, and through the dining room to the original starting wall.
I'm not sure if that's a big deal or not.
The shop will need to order more material and it will probably January before the material gets here so the job is on hold right now.
Here's an image of where I would start the install. I'd leave that 2-in piece that shows in place. I could hot glue some pieces of wood onto the floor against the toe kick to keep it from moving when I did the tappy tap tap process.
You have to zoom in to see what I'm talking about.

 

[highup]

Tile Tom mentioned he suspected a prep work issue and that's a floor either bounced or was not flat.
The area in front of the refrigerator, the one that got this whole ball of wax started, well it does have that issue. The pocket where the refrigerator sits probably should have had at least 1/8 inch floor tile put under it and then feathered out till it's flat.
The newer area that has separated is in front of the sink. Its perfectly flat both directions so why did it separate?
In the dining room at the end of the table, there is another plank that has separated. It's probably the most separated plank on this job, yet that part of the floor is flat also. It will stop separating if it goes another 1/8 of an inch because the tile will be pushed up against the wall behind the base at that point.

 

[C.J.]

Cabinets were installed AFTER the floor? Are they on top of the floor? Preventing it from free floating? Could be just one more factor in the floors failure.

 

[highup]

Cabinets were installed AFTER the floor? Are they on top of the floor? Preventing it from free floating? Could be just one more factor in the floors failure.

I thought about that but 14 ft away from the kitchen is where the worst two pieces separated. That's the one with the calipers in it. Having the cabinets on top should make it separate perpendicular to where it is now.
I had a job once where I was sent to repair a transition that it installer had put in. By using a 3/4 inch quarter round he made a transition from a kitchen floor down to a dining room floor. The lady insisted he do it with a flush mount trim of some sort.
When we discussed the options she wanted it done the same way as it was before. I called a tech from cortec. He told me the product is dimensionally stable and that I could glue that edge down. I told him the dimensions of the kitchen. He was probably 20 ft from one end to the other. He told me I could glue a 6-in strip at the end I wanted to and then he added if there's another doorway somewhere else or refrigerator hole those areas could be glued also. That wouldn't be much different than putting cabinets on top.
On another job there was a kitchen at one end of the house and the Cortec went clear to the other side of a house down an angled hallway and into a bathroom.
I asked the rep about a t molding at the bathroom and he said no, that's not necessary. I said the distance is about 40 ft from one end to the other if I go clear through the bathroom and he said that's not a problem that this product is dimensionally stable.
So I said maybe I can put a larger than normal Gap at the tub and use silicone or a trim piece there to allow some movement. He said no, you can fit it tighter than that.
That was long before this Stone material came out.
Besides that, the kitchen is locked in on three sides. The cabinets would lock it in and keep it from moving if anything.
I think it's like Don said. The product is s***.

 

[Don Monfils]

It’s a piece-o

 

[highup]

...shit

 

[highup]

Do you think the new lock on the product is that way too?
.....and have you installed any of it to back up your viewpoint.
It seems like it would only take a couple thousands in thickness added to one side of the joint to make it lock together like it should.

 

[highup]

What I'm asking I guess is do they come apart because the lock breaks or does it simply not grip or lock together well enough?

 

[Don Monfils]

I haven’t seen the new version yet.
My opinion is that it does not lock together tight enough, to stay together.
I have noticed that the bigger format tiles don’t lay very flat, right out of the box.I have set them on a counter top and middle of the tile is raised up, So when the floor is walked on their is movement, even on a perfectly flat floor.