I did a cut up kitchen/ bathroom with sheetgoods today.
Cast iron heaters, appliances, new 1/4 round.
Cast iron heaters, appliances, new 1/4 round.
Armstrong sheet vinyl
- Thread starter Don Monfils
- Start date
Help Support Flooring Forum - DIY & Professional:
Better you than me. I've grown to hate vinyl over the last 15 years ......or whenever that ivc type material started a downhill trend in vinyl flooring. Nice work Done.
Thanks, that one was a little challenging.
What you talking about?? Sheet vinyl in my opinion is literally the best it has ever been, is it not?
I remember Solarian at $40. a yard. Customer said they had the floor ready. When I got there, they had nailed 1/4 inch underlayment, over rubberback carpet with roofing nails. when I walked across it, nails would pop up. I declined the job.
Most of it is softer than the vinyl of the good old days. I'm talking silurian supreme tough. the only upside for some people is is more flexible and you can't tear it which can make installation easier. I don't gauge quality on how easy it is to install. The Armstrong materials with that Tough Guard finish are really nice, and tough like they say. So I don't mean all materials. When patterning, the materials can be quite flexible, unlike the stiff paperback goods of yesteryear. one folding one of these newer materials around the corner they can twist a little bit and not land where you wanted it to.
I grew up installing mostly Armstrong Solarian or Corlon. I hated double cutting vinyls, then cramming a sealer nozzle into a flawless seam to make it become visible once more.
I just liked what I grew up with.
I can understand that but I think you misjudge the current state of vinyl. I have some very "builder grade" glassbac in my home..... we won't say how I acquired it, and that stuff which I had zero expectations for has lived up to 6 years of complete abuse from me, my wheelbarrow, flooding, firewood, appliances, dogs, kids, home renovations and most recently the addition of woodworking equipment. I know it can be deceiving with how soft it appears and it will anhialate if something catches and you drag it.... but the stuff is bulletproof. Not to mention ot is stable unlike the old mineral back vinyls which would curl and lift or have seams separate. I came up installing only mineral backs and was in the middle of my career when the new world order came to be and I have to say I cringe now when I see a paper back vinyl.
I agree Mark I tell our sales staff if the vinyl is curling around the walls and on the joins you could just about guarantee the old vinyl was asbestos of which we cant lift
When we first came across these plastic/glass backings we had to learn again how to lay them as they didnt do what we were used to with the asbestos type backings. We used to pattern them in tightly as we cut vinyls tightly into the skirting boards, then force the vinyl in as they would shrink. We found with these newer type vinyls if one was to cut the thickness of a ball point pen line to tightly into the skirting boards the vinyl would bubble up usually just after you left. Also the older type vinyls if you had a slight twist going through rooms the vinyl would just shrink into its self to lay flat These new ones have to be flat to start with. Another issue we had if the floor wasnt flat one would have to "pleat" the newer type vinyls when the vinyl was coved as they would not stretch or shrink to follow the floor
When we first came across these plastic/glass backings we had to learn again how to lay them as they didnt do what we were used to with the asbestos type backings. We used to pattern them in tightly as we cut vinyls tightly into the skirting boards, then force the vinyl in as they would shrink. We found with these newer type vinyls if one was to cut the thickness of a ball point pen line to tightly into the skirting boards the vinyl would bubble up usually just after you left. Also the older type vinyls if you had a slight twist going through rooms the vinyl would just shrink into its self to lay flat These new ones have to be flat to start with. Another issue we had if the floor wasnt flat one would have to "pleat" the newer type vinyls when the vinyl was coved as they would not stretch or shrink to follow the floor
You only cringe because S-200 no longer exists.
I honestly can't remember last time I installed vinyl. I'm sure it's been over a year. The only flat lay I can think of doing was a month and a half ago and it was that linoleum job that I mentioned.
It was a very rare day when I installed any product other than Armstrong. The shop we did work for mainly promoted and sold Solarian.
The originator of these wires I think was IVC. The products were soft, when the texture collected dirt like a magnet.
The Armstrong product that I mentioned that had the tough guard finish was actually nice stuff.
The only thing that I didn't like was when you take the pattern to the material the tape would not stick. That really sucked because I used to pattern most of my vinyl installs.
It was a very rare day when I installed any product other than Armstrong. The shop we did work for mainly promoted and sold Solarian.
The originator of these wires I think was IVC. The products were soft, when the texture collected dirt like a magnet.
The Armstrong product that I mentioned that had the tough guard finish was actually nice stuff.
The only thing that I didn't like was when you take the pattern to the material the tape would not stick. That really sucked because I used to pattern most of my vinyl installs.
With these new vinyls I have found Sellotape sticks better Sometimes if you run your finger a couple of time where you want the tape helps I had tried all different types of masking tapes but sellotape works well We do use a kinda stiff brown paper though
That's a good idea. I never thought about that, it sticks everything. 
The only vinyl I install, is the Armstong Memories, (which is the old felt back style, which I here is now discontinued) the Techno flooring, and my favorite, the Armstong inlainds, I think its still called Corlon,lol. The Memories I hate, you break the back just trying to unroll it or trying to drop into the adhesive, the Techno, because that "sheet" won't lay flat no matter how long you let it lay out. When I do flat lay, i use a little paint roller to put a thin coat on the ends about a 12". The local Indian casinos get the good Armstong, love how easy it is to work with. Luckily, all the commercial stuff is heat welded.
Don, how do you get by without at least hitting those lay over's with some Feather Finish?
Highup, I use cheap duct tape to hold my pattern paper.
I mostly now just play foreman on these commercial jobs, just go help with layout, make sure they actually do prep,etc. I let the young guys pack the materials in, spread most the patch and adhesive. Got 2 upcoming at the same time, one a nice big plank job by the shop, the other in the upstairs of a new building I did about 6 years ago. That one is on the second floor, with new underlayment, so im going to avoid that one.
Don, how do you get by without at least hitting those lay over's with some Feather Finish?
Highup, I use cheap duct tape to hold my pattern paper.
I mostly now just play foreman on these commercial jobs, just go help with layout, make sure they actually do prep,etc. I let the young guys pack the materials in, spread most the patch and adhesive. Got 2 upcoming at the same time, one a nice big plank job by the shop, the other in the upstairs of a new building I did about 6 years ago. That one is on the second floor, with new underlayment, so im going to avoid that one.
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Don’t need ardex on top of a perfectly flat vct floor. That’s a better substrate than most of the fiberglass backed floors need to look perfect.
Nice work Don.
I have always preferred installing felt-backed vinyl. The vinyl-backed was created for the DIY market. The majority of vinyl in my area is DIY installed.
What is wrong with you people... you and highup need a stern talking to. Mineral backed vinyl is the devil!
Don’t need ardex on top of a perfectly flat vct floor. That’s a better substrate than most of the fiberglass backed floors need to look perfect.
I'm not picking on Don at all, I know he knows what he's doing. But, I've never seen a perfectly flat VCT install, and even if it looks ok, I still skim coat it because I see value in using Feather Finish over the top of existing floors, period. But thats just me, all you young'ins have a different perspective, lol.
Don’t need ardex on top of a perfectly flat vct floor. That’s a better substrate than most of the fiberglass backed floors need to look perfect.
Lol, It's because we were around to meet the REAL devil, the one that started with the Armstrong Tredway, the perimeter glue, or staple vinyl, followed soon my the Mannington line, of which the Mannington Gold had the "If you don't like it for ANY reason, we will replace your floor for free" Here on the left coast, we did lots of full cove, and coved a LOT of these products. The adhesive was stupid expensive, and so we started using the Henry's Super Vinyl adhesive, which looked like the Mannington, had the same color tracer flakes in it, BUT, the Mannington was a Hard set, Henry's was a soft set, so as these floors never seem to stop shrinking and expanding, and everything that could, did go wrong. Hell, its ben so long I can't remember a lot of the particulars, but I was sure glad it was before my time as a licensed contractor, it seems I remember the owners of the shop I worked saying the fiasco nearly bankrupted Mannington Maybe Commercial Floor Rep, or the other guys that were installing in the 70's about this and the products. They, were the DEVIL..
I'm not picking on Don at all, I know he knows what he's doing. But, I've never seen a perfectly flat VCT install, and even if it looks ok, I still skim coat it because I see value in using Feather Finish over the top of existing floors, period. But thats just me, all you young'ins have a different perspective, lol.
Don’t need ardex on top of a perfectly flat vct floor. That’s a better substrate than most of the fiberglass backed floors need to look perfect.
Lol, It's because we were around to meet the REAL devil, the one that started with the Armstrong Tredway, the perimeter glue, or staple vinyl, followed soon my the Mannington line, of which the Mannington Gold had the "If you don't like it for ANY reason, we will replace your floor for free" Here on the left coast, we did lots of full cove, and coved a LOT of these products. The adhesive was stupid expensive, and so we started using the Henry's Super Vinyl adhesive, which looked like the Mannington, had the same color tracer flakes in it, BUT, the Mannington was a Hard set, Henry's was a soft set, so as these floors never seem to stop shrinking and expanding, and everything that could, did go wrong. Hell, its ben so long I can't remember a lot of the particulars, but I was sure glad it was before my time as a licensed contractor, it seems I remember the owners of the shop I worked saying the fiasco nearly bankrupted Mannington Maybe Commercial Floor Rep, or the other guys that were installing in the 70's about this and the products. They, were the DEVIL..
Linoleum was the queen of floors. I have seen it still good after 60-70 years.
linoleum is neither a vinyl or a mineral backed product. I fail to see the correlation. I do agree with you however, it is the best product ever made for floor covering.
