It's me again. I was the person who's tongue in groove engineered flooring pulled apart awhile back. It turned out that the installer had floated it without using any glue and without proper underlayment. He wouldn't fix it, I sued and got my money back and hired another installer. New installer stapled it down. Now it's separating again. Does this mean maybe that the flooring underneath the hardwood is uneven and causing this problem? Thanks.
Floor Separation
- Thread starter khq0660
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Help Support Flooring Forum - DIY & Professional:
What is the subfloor, plywood, particle board, or OSB?
Thanks for stopping by with an update.
Remind us of the material again. Was it an engineered product? How thick?
Remind us of the material again. Was it an engineered product? How thick?
I don't know what the subfloor is made of. The flooring is engineered, Triangulo Maduro Chestnut, 3/8" x 3 1/4". Tongue in groove.
The installer just came by and tells me that even if the subfloor was a little uneven it wouldn't make the boards separate like that since they are stapled down. He claims that my house shifted or something is wrong with the hardwood. He said he'd come back in a couple of weeks and if it hasn't shifted any more, he'd put caulking in the gaps between the boards. The flooring is separating in the same places it first did when the first guy didn't glue it, but that is where I walk the most, so I don't know if it's something with the floor in that place or if it's just because it's a high traffic spot. Thanks.
The installer just came by and tells me that even if the subfloor was a little uneven it wouldn't make the boards separate like that since they are stapled down. He claims that my house shifted or something is wrong with the hardwood. He said he'd come back in a couple of weeks and if it hasn't shifted any more, he'd put caulking in the gaps between the boards. The flooring is separating in the same places it first did when the first guy didn't glue it, but that is where I walk the most, so I don't know if it's something with the floor in that place or if it's just because it's a high traffic spot. Thanks.
So strange. New flooring or did he reuse the original.
If the subfloor "shifted" then he didn't look for the condition of the floor before he began installing. Like not enough fasteners..... Tho I wouldn't think lack of fasteners in the sub floor would cause gaps to occur... maybe squeeks.
The reason both floors separated are not related.
The original floor wasn't a nailed down solid wood floor was it?
Not sure if caulking is a good idea, unless it's just a small spot.
If the subfloor "shifted" then he didn't look for the condition of the floor before he began installing. Like not enough fasteners..... Tho I wouldn't think lack of fasteners in the sub floor would cause gaps to occur... maybe squeeks.
The reason both floors separated are not related.
The original floor wasn't a nailed down solid wood floor was it?
Not sure if caulking is a good idea, unless it's just a small spot.
If your house shifted, you would be seeing cracks in the drywall and all kinds of other things. Are you sure the gaps were not there immediately after the floor was installed and not something that started later?
That's what I thought. If the wood stayed in the house, then it's acclimated, so that could be ruled out.
In case that mean old Selva chimes in, here's the flooring.
https://www.hursthardwoods.com/triangulo-3/8-x-3-1/4-brazilian-chestnut-maduro/
https://www.hursthardwoods.com/triangulo-3/8-x-3-1/4-brazilian-chestnut-maduro/
I meant what was under the carpet. What the bare substrate was.
I don't know. I'm a no-nothing homeowner. The original installer pulled up the carpeting and padding. There was something that looked like plywood under it to me, but I can't tell you what sort of wood it was. The most recent installer rolled out some sort of thin underlayment before he re-installed the floor.
When I had an inspector come look at the original floating-without-glue botch job, he didn't find anything wrong with the hardwood product or the humidity in the house. He did not, however, do any destructive testing of the installation as that would have voided any installation warranties that I had. So, the only glimpse he could have had of the subfloor would have been in the vents. I'll see if I can find if he made any notes about his observations from looking in the vents. I have emailed him to ask if he has any insights into this and have not yet heard back.
When I had an inspector come look at the original floating-without-glue botch job, he didn't find anything wrong with the hardwood product or the humidity in the house. He did not, however, do any destructive testing of the installation as that would have voided any installation warranties that I had. So, the only glimpse he could have had of the subfloor would have been in the vents. I'll see if I can find if he made any notes about his observations from looking in the vents. I have emailed him to ask if he has any insights into this and have not yet heard back.
A few years back, I had the carpet on the stairs removed and replaced with hardwood steps. On the landing upstairs, the stair guys--a different company from either mentioned here before--used this same hardwood. The landing had a bit of an undulating floor and the hardwood buckled up. They had to come back and glue it down to the floor. That worked. It was a couple of years after that that I took up the rest of the carpet upstairs and finished the upstairs with hardwood.
I'm wondering if the floor structure in this area flexes too much. If that's the case, the installer should know before starting. I say that because of what you mentioned about the landing.
The underlayment you mentioned him installing. It should ba a paper like underlayment. Not soft like the kind under a floating installation.
The underlayment you mentioned him installing. It should ba a paper like underlayment. Not soft like the kind under a floating installation.
If separated in the same place twice, I would be looking at the subfloor
His first failed floor was installed as a floating floor. It was standard t&g but the guy didn't glue the planks together..... just tapped em together as if they were click locks.
This second install was done reusing the same boards but stapling this time.
One would hope this second installer would notice a subfloor issue... that said, one would also think the first installer would have glued the planks together.
khq0660, have a second person put their weight on the separated area while you watch at floor level for up and down movement. Have them rock back and forth putting weight off an on the spot. Does the flooring move up snd down a lot or is it pretty stable?
I think I remember the underlayment being paper thin.
If I rock while standing on the floor in that spot, the floor has some give to it. I was thinking that the repeating flexing from walking on that spot was making the staples work loose. When the installer came to look at the problem a few days ago, he kept insisting that the give in the floor couldn't cause the boards to pull apart. What do you folks think?
If the uneven subfloor is causing this, how do I get it fixed? Is there a way to even out that one area without having to pull up the whole floor? I hate to throw out 500 square feet of wood by tearing up the whole floor.
Thanks.
If I rock while standing on the floor in that spot, the floor has some give to it. I was thinking that the repeating flexing from walking on that spot was making the staples work loose. When the installer came to look at the problem a few days ago, he kept insisting that the give in the floor couldn't cause the boards to pull apart. What do you folks think?
If the uneven subfloor is causing this, how do I get it fixed? Is there a way to even out that one area without having to pull up the whole floor? I hate to throw out 500 square feet of wood by tearing up the whole floor.
Thanks.
Oh, and he wants to caulk in the separated areas and put ugly transition pieces, for me to trip over, in all of the doorways. I don't know if there is an attractive alternative to those half-round transition pieces. I should have re-carpeted instead.
