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Ernesto

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Your worried about desert tortoises? ha ha OK

Check this newer technology out cus you keep talking about solar panels. This baby's going online soon if it ain't already.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/04/phoenix-az-concentrating-solar-power-begin-2011.php



http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-to-use-solar-energy-at-night

Everyone was jumping on the nuclear power for a couple months till Japan got hit. The one nuke plant in the northeast during the big floods almost got overwhelmed as well. And for storage of nuclear waste...it's all still being stored at the nuke plants because Nevada does not want it stored in the multi-billion dollar storage facility tax payers paid for.
 
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highup

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Your worried about desert tortoises? ha ha OK

Check this newer technology out cus you keep talking about solar panels. This baby's going online soon if it ain't already.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/04/phoenix-az-concentrating-solar-power-begin-2011.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaVXzLD3NL8

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-to-use-solar-energy-at-night

Everyone was jumping on the nuclear power for a couple months till Japan got hit. The one nuke plant in the northeast during the big floods almost got overwhelmed as well. And for storage of nuclear waste...it's all still being stored at the nuke plants because Nevada does not want it stored in the multi-billion dollar storage facility tax payers paid for.

From the Scientific American source:
02:15 PM 2/18/09

I'm all in favor of renewable energy sources, but not at any cost or efficiency. Both of the aforementioned items (cost and efficiency)identified in this article are suspicious, and I will explain why.

1. Cost: Earlier articles on this same technology (IEEE Spectrum Oct 2008) quoted a cost of 27 cents/Kwhr, which was a subsidized cost. And, to me, this is acceptable for a "new" renewable technology in it's formative stage. However, in this article, the proponents now quote a price of 13 cents/Kwhr! That's 50% less in only a few months. I think I would like to see some cost justification on how the price decreased 50% in 6 months before jumping on this band wagon.

2. Efficiency: The round trip efficiency of 93% quoted in the article is identified in a very misleading manner,which leads one to believe that the "round trip" efficiency of the plant is 93%. The efficiency of 93%pertains only to the thermal storage part of the plant. Having said that, I would like to state that this is a "very" good efficiency for an energy storage mechanism that far exceeds any type of battery storage. However, the actual round trip efficiency of the entire plant (solar collector to steam to turbine to generator to electricity) is less than 20%; (Reference technical article "Central REceiver System (CRS) Solar Power Plant Using Molten Salt As Heat Transfer Fluid" by J. Ortega, J. Burgaleta, F. Tellez, Oct 2008) and this is not mentioned anywhere in this article.

I would like to see our government have a balanced approach in its implementation of renewable energy generation that includes all types of renewable sources (hydro, wind, solar, geothermal, pumped storage, etc.). However, a well balance plan cannot be developed until the respective proponents of various schemes tell the true stories about their strengths and weakenesses. The above mentioned article by Mr. Biello is not accurate or truthful.

From the treehugger site:

NREL found that when CSP plants store solar thermal energy to use during non-solar periods, dispatching it when it's needed most—in other words, making power when the sun's not shining—they can "achieve higher annual capacity factors—from 25 percent without thermal storage up to 70 percent or more with it."

Compare that with the capacity factors of coal, natural gas combined cycle and nuclear power plants. According to the Operating Performance Rankings industry report in the Nov./Dec. 2008 issue of Electric Light & Power, coal-fired power plant capacity factors range from 72 percent to 93 percent, combined cycle from 41 percent to 86 percent and nuclear from 90 percent to 96 percent.

And nukes run 24/7/365 with reliable steady power.

One must consider the source of the information. Articles from Tree Hugger just MIGHT be a wee bit friendly with their percentages, doncha think?
...maybe even leaving out info that helps us form a complete picture........... especially the electricity costs. just 13 cents delivered to your home......... oh man, please pinch me.:D
 

highup

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Floorist and others that might not know, Ernesto and I are having fun, not arguing.
The funny part is that he is always so, soooo, wrong. :D
 

highup

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Now that thats finished, lets get back to ways to improve the jobs situation.

The preisdent met with the jobs council and what they wanted was actually in the jobs bill that was voted down last night by every republican. It's very distressing.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011...ends-meeting-council-jobs-and-competitiveness
Here's a better title:
Bi-partison Senate Rejects Jobs Bill
http://biggovernment.com/publius/2011/10/11/bipartisan-senate-vote-rejects-obamas-jobs-bill/

I'd love to see the number on the Democratic side that wanted to vote against the bill, but had either chickened out or had threats of broken bones by Harry and Nancy.;);)
I'd love to be a fly on the wall the day before the vote. :D
 

Ernesto

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Highup and I have been through this before a few times. :rolleyes:

OK, whats the current cost of a nuke plant and it's fuel and it storage cost? Water for it?

Me, I also kinda like coal, we have lots of coal. Lets use coal but put on scrubbers. Coal byproducts are used in concrete. Whats not to like? I just want to reduce our dependency on oil.
 

Floorist

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Why don't we just go back to raising our own food? Using horse and buggy and go to bed at dark and get up at sunrise. That would save a lot of energy.:D
 

Ernesto

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9 9 9 What a scam. Herman Cain.....wants to sock it to us again. Corporations only really pay about 26 to 28 % if even that, so they will get a huge break....oh but coporations are people ha ha The super wealthy will get an enourmous tax break, and the poor will pay a hefty increased tax of 9% plus 9% on food and stuff when they're not hardly paying nothing.

OK enough of the friggin tax break krap, lets talk about jobs, and not jobs making pizza for minimum wage.
 

highup

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Highup and I have been through this before a few times.

OK, whats the current cost of a nuke plant and it's fuel and it storage cost? Water for it?

Me, I also kinda like coal, we have lots of coal. Lets use coal but put on scrubbers. Coal byproducts are used in concrete. Whats not to like? I just want to reduce our dependency on oil.
Mercury is omitted by concrete/cement makers doncha know.

Why not subsidize the nukes a lot more since it's a viable, not experimental science.

You can lump Japan's disaster into the mix along with Chernobyl and Three Mile Island errors. Huge judgmental errors based on known unsafe design, or human's overriding the emergency protocol, or engineers not listening to or reading the available earthquake information as it should have been read prior to finding a stable and proper location. The Japan engineers located the plant too low and did not factor in a 3 foot or 3 meter drop,
(I don't recall the numbers)
in that location in the event of a large scale earthquake. I recall readin they knew the possibility of a subduction drop in elevation at the reactor locations, but either doubted or ignored the possibility. Located that close to sea level, they built in the wrong location.

Were Japan's OTHER 52nuke plants affected by the tsunami? Nukes supply 1/3 of Japan's power, 24/7/365



I also recall 20/20 saying the plant should have been located on the other side of the coastline............... The planning and "OKing" went wrong even tho there were known issues that the location had.
It was operational starting in 1971........... three mile island indecent happened in 1979 and Chernobyl failure in 1986.... A Chernobyl design itself was considered unsafe by the nuke society even way back then. (no containment building) .........but it was much cheaper to build. (hey, we are talkin the USSR)

So anyhow,since that time, we must now weigh deaths and environmental damage from nuclear power plants.
........how is nuclear scoring now since those two forty and twenty five year old mishaps? ( I use 'mishaps' tongue in cheek )
Pretty darn safety record isn't it? Nukes were in their infancy and we have learned how to design them with maximum safety.
Nothing is totally without risk, but if you want 'clean' energy, we already have the knowledge and these nuke plants prove it day in, day out, throughout the world.

No smoke stacks with nuke power.......... just steam.

Hollywood must have done many trillions of dollars in economic damage since 3 mile island.
..........thousands of coal plants would have never been built................... but for the movie China Syndrome. They wanted no nukes, so we got coal instead.

See how the enviro-wackos screw themselves and us?

They did the same thing 35 years ago insisting on and promoting 100% battery powered cars as the future to save the earth. :rolleyes:
..............instead of pushing hard for the development of Hybrid cars which are a very realistic goal.

Most all nukes are still in operation.
If the uneducated, "feel good" greenies wouldn't have been so extreme over the past 3 decades, we would be light years ahead pollution wise..........and greenhouse gas wise too for you 'believers of the myth'. :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_the_United_States


Why don't we just go back to raising our own food? Using horse and buggy and go to bed at dark and get up at sunrise. That would save a lot of energy.:D

I like dune buggies.
...............oh wait, that's not what you said. :eek:
 
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highup

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9 9 9 What a scam. Herman Cain.....wants to sock it to us again. Corporations only really pay about 26 to 28 % if even that, so they will get a huge break....oh but coporations are people ha ha The super wealthy will get an enourmous tax break, and the poor will pay a hefty increased tax of 9% plus 9% on food and stuff when they're not hardly paying nothing.

OK enough of the friggin tax break krap, lets talk about jobs, and not jobs making pizza for minimum wage.

We lost most all our lumber mills over the past 25 years and the greenie bunch now protests here at every chance they have and drive away any decent wage paying jobs.
Nothing is clean enough........... maybe a bottled water plant would meet their approval. :rolleyes:
Nu cor Steel wanted to build here, a ship 'recycling' business, and most recently a LNG importing facility. We have the largest shipping channel between San Francisco and Seattle and was once the largest lumber shipping port in the entire world. Yup. Lil' old Coos Bay Oregon.
.......... goofy greenies chase em all of with lawsuits and protests.

Now we have Wal Mart and Wall Greens and a casino as our family wage jobs......... family wage meaning everyone in the family has to work to make ends meet.:rolleyes:

LNG may still happen here via the federal powers of imminent domain, even after years of the industry cowering to the demands of the local CAVE people ( CAVE as in Citizens Against Virtually Everything
 
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msinstallations

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Get the money out. I take it you mean guys like George Soros, Warren Buffet or maybe George Kaiser. Small donations under $100, I seem to remember Lord Obama got them from guys like Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse, overseas donations at that. Yes he has certainly gone a long ways to stamp out corruption.

Sounds like the park at the Wall Street Occupation will get a little bleaching, I am sure things are getting a little rank with the defecation on police cars and all.
 

Ernesto

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Get the money out. I take it you mean guys like George Soros, Warren Buffet or maybe George Kaiser. Small donations under $100, I seem to remember Lord Obama got them from guys like Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse, overseas donations at that. Yes he has certainly gone a long ways to stamp out corruption.

Sounds like the park at the Wall Street Occupation will get a little bleaching, I am sure things are getting a little rank with the defecation on police cars and all.

Those Democrats are always asking for 3 bucks here, 4 bucks there. I'd like to see it all end. They all take money from where ever they can get it.
 

Ernesto

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Well they might smell a little, but least they're not packing heat like the Tea Party was. Can you imagine....lol If anyone saw liberals packing heat at a protest the Marines would be called out. hehe

But Holy Hell, just one day after the republicants vote down the Jobs bill what do they do? Yesterday, House Republicans mounted another extreme attack to undermine and restrict a woman’s access to reproductive health care.

I mean...is this what they ran on to get majority of the house? No it was JOBS!

Can you imagine.... your wife is pregnant, she is miscarrying and you run her to the hospital and the hospital says F You go somewhere else because we can't do an abortion to save your wife.

This is what the republicants have done since day one since they won the house. Going on 280 plus days and nothing about jobs. It's all about abortion and killing labor unions.
 

Floorist

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My thought....

vain men.jpg
 

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