Hard surface reducer question

[NH-Okie]

I'm tearing out carpet and installing 3/4" x 2 1/4" red oak prefinshed flooring.
I have linoleum laid over 1/4" ply in the dining room. The transition is about 10 ft. long. My question has to do with how to install the moulding. Do you nail the flooring in place and nail the transition to the subfloor. Or does it attach to the new flooring somehow and float over the linoleum. I'm confused about tying the hardwood floor down in one spot when I'll have expansion/contraction gaps everywhere else.

 

[JIMMIEM]

I'm tearing out carpet and installing 3/4" x 2 1/4" red oak prefinshed flooring.
I have linoleum laid over 1/4" ply in the dining room. The transition is about 10 ft. long. My question has to do with how to install the moulding. Do you nail the flooring in place and nail the transition to the subfloor. Or does it attach to the new flooring somehow and float over the linoleum. I'm confused about tying the hardwood floor down in one spot when I'll have expansion/contraction gaps everywhere else.

What is the height difference between the new oak flooring and linoleum? Do the new oak flooring boards run parallel or perpendicular to the linoleum?

 

[NH-Okie]

Linoleum on 1/4" ply. Right around 5/16" height so around an 11/16" difference. Boards will run parallel to the edge.

 

[JIMMIEM]

Linoleum on 1/4" ply. Right around 5/16" height so around an 11/16" difference. Boards will run parallel to the edge.

Luan and new flooring are on the same subfloor? If so, luan + linoleum = 5/16" height? New flooring 3/4" height? So isn't the difference 3/4" - 5/16" = 7/16"?
While we're at it do you have the tools e.g. table saw and router to do some cutting to make your own transition piece?

 

[NH-Okie]

Sorry, you're right about the difference. Had 1/16" thickness linoleum stuck in my head. Yes, everything is installed on top of 3/4" Advantech T&G sheet subfloor.
I have a small table saw, compound miter saw and a router.

I'll need to either trim back the 1/4" ply or reach over 1" of bare ply. The installer put the carpet edge trim on top of the 1/4" ply.

 

[JIMMIEM]

Sorry, you're right about the difference. Had 1/16" thickness linoleum stuck in my head. Yes, everything is installed on top of 3/4" Advantech T&G sheet subfloor.
I have a small table saw, compound miter saw and a router.

I'll need to either trim back the 1/4" ply or reach over 1" of bare ply. The installer put the carpet edge trim on top of the 1/4" ply.

Is the new flooring being laid toward or away from the linoleum? My explanation assumes you are installing the hardwood towards the linoleum and I refer to the transition reducer as the last piece. If you are installing the hardwood going away from the linoleum the same advice applies but the transition reducer would be referred to as the first piece..
Remove the carpet edge trim. Rabbet the bottom edge of the last piece of flooring by 5/16". Make the rabbet wide enough to provide an expansion gap. This rabbet will let the flooring overlap and rest on the linoleum. Put a 15 degree chamfer on the edge of the flooring that overlaps the linoleum....this will create a gentle ramp. Face nail this piece of flooring into the subfloor. If this is the first piece then nail through its tongue too. You can also buy transition/reducer pieces that will do the same thing. Depending on dimensions you may have to modify the store bought piece too.

 

[NH-Okie]

Do you think a 1/2" gap is enough. I'm going to have to remove some of the 1/4" ply otherwise I'll be removing almost the entire width of the board for the rabbet.

1-1/2" from edge of ply (to overlap linoleum by 1/2") + 1/2" gap?, = 2" rabbet on 2-1/4" flooring and I'd have to reverse the board, install slip tongues, rip the existing tongue in order to chamfer the board and keep my width.

I'll probably reverse this board anyway. It's about 3 rows behind my starting line and the run is away from it.

Short explanation: Installing in a ranch layout. The major sight line is from a side door across the living room, parallel with a kitchen penisula, down the hall and across the master suite, about 52 feet. The penisula is set back about 4-1/2" from the nearest hallway wall and nearly even with the linoleum in question. So I'll be setting my line just off the hallway wall and running it the length of the house. And it happens this is the layout that crosses the floor joists.

 

[JIMMIEM]

Do you think a 1/2" gap is enough. I'm going to have to remove some of the 1/4" ply otherwise I'll be removing almost the entire width of the board for the rabbet.

1-1/2" from edge of ply (to overlap linoleum by 1/2") + 1/2" gap?, = 2" rabbet on 2-1/4" flooring and I'd have to reverse the board, install slip tongues, rip the existing tongue in order to chamfer the board and keep my width.

I'll probably reverse this board anyway. It's about 3 rows behind my starting line and the run is away from it.

1/2" expansion gap is enough for your flooring.
Linoleum doesn't run to edge of luan? If not, remove the exposed luan.
Can you post a picture? I think I'm following you...want to be sure.
Floor tongues face away from linoleum? Is the flooring installed?

 

[NH-Okie]

Photo attached, you can see the corner there, that's the hallway wall parallel to the linoleum.

Ok. The carpet trim (1-3/8" wide) sets fully on right on the edge of the ply overlapping the linoleum by about 3/8". 1" bare ply under the carpet trim.

The tongues will be away from the linoleum.

No, the flooring is not down yet.

Waiting for the wood to acclimatize and prepping for the work. Learning what I need to know.

 

[JIMMIEM]

Photo attached, you can see the corner there, that's the hallway wall parallel to the linoleum.

Ok. The carpet trim (1-3/8" wide) sets fully on right on the edge of the ply overlapping the linoleum by about 3/8". 1" bare ply under the carpet trim.

The tongues will be away from the linoleum.

No, the flooring is not down yet.

Waiting for the wood to acclimatize and prepping for the work. Learning what I need to know.

1" bare ply is luan? Remove it. The first row of hardwood should cover the edge of the linoleum. Rabbet (5/16") the underside so that the rabbet sits on the linoleum. Extend the rabbet 1/2" for expansion gap. Chamfer the top edge that sits on the linoleum. Face nail this row and then nail through the tongue (this is the way the first row is installed). Measure the width of the room in order to figure out how many rows you will have. You can adjust the linoleum overlap so you will have an even number of rows in order to avoid having to rip down the last row. Also, create a baseline near the edge of the linoleum to ensure that the first row is straight and perpendicular to the end walls.
As you mentioned, you might want to rip the tongue off the first row and rabbet the now tongueless edge for the linoleum overlap. Then add a spline/slip tongue to the board's groove to create a new tongue. Use carpenters glue to secure the spline/slip tongue. When you nail this spline/slip tongue use a couple of pieces of flooring with their grooves over the spline/slip tongue to hold the spline/slip tongue at the correct angle i.e. parallel to the subfloor.

I missed your explanation section that described the site lines, etc. so my referring to the transition/reducer as the first row isn't quite correct but you get the idea of what I am suggesting about the transition/reducer rabbet, chamfer, and nailing.

 

[NH-Okie]

I get the idea. It's along the idea I was thinking on. I hadn't really planned on making my own transitions because of being prefinished but why not, I've got about an extra 400 sq. ft. of flooring to play with (Bought the lot at auction)
I hadn't thought of measuring across to get the lay of boards figured out. I'll check it out and hope it's even. I really want that first row down the hall to start whole, but I know I'll have to rip one side or the other.

Thanks for the advice and sanity check.

 

[JIMMIEM]

I get the idea. It's along the idea I was thinking on. I hadn't really planned on making my own transitions because of being prefinished but why not, I've got about an extra 400 sq. ft. of flooring to play with (Bought the lot at auction)
I hadn't thought of measuring across to get the lay of boards figured out. I'll check it out and hope it's even. I really want that first row down the hall to start whole, but I know I'll have to rip one side or the other.

Thanks for the advice and sanity check.

Is that first row down the hall against a wall? Is there a baseboard? Are you removing the baseboard? For the transitions match the color and get a good poly....I assume your flooring has a polyurethane finish. Last N Last is an excellent oil base polyurethane.....I don't work for the company.
It's usually a good idea to measure before you start in case your beginning rows have to participate in adjustments and there won't be any surprises.
Have fun and post pictures.

 

[JIMMIEM]

I couldn't quite get the layout but I saw the number 52 feet. If the area is wider than 20 feet the rule of thumb is to start in the middle and lay the flooring in 2 directions toward the outer edges. This will help with expansion issues, if they occur. So again, plan the layout before beginning the installation.

 

[NH-Okie]

I've already started removing baseboards. The house is 52 ft. long by 28 wide. The hall is pretty much centered in the house so I was planning on starting against the wall closest to the kitchen dining room area. This allows me to back fill between that area and my starting line with 2-3 boards. I also have to adjust for a bathroom with same linoleum setup as the dining room that is the first door I cross with the starting run in the hallway.
There are 4 doorways I'll cross in the hallway, the aforementioned bath and a bedroom behind the start line and another bedroom and a basement door opposite the start line.
So my biggest concern is to balance the start line for a good transition in both the dining room and bathroom.

I don't know what the finish is, like I mentioned I bought flooring at auction. Common #2 Gunstock Red Oak with a low luster finish. At $2 a square it was a good price to me. I was planning on experimenting with wood finish to see what's compatible. I believe the finish is some kind of poly finish, just got to sand it and see if it has any alum oxide in it.

I've already decided to undercut the sheetrock as well and get a better fit to the door case trim. Do my best to do it right.

If you want I can post a pic tonight looking along the hall showing the area that we've been discussing.

 

[JIMMIEM]

I've already started removing baseboards. The house is 52 ft. long by 28 wide. The hall is pretty much centered in the house so I was planning on starting against the wall closest to the kitchen dining room area. This allows me to back fill between that area and my starting line with 2-3 boards. I also have to adjust for a bathroom with same linoleum setup as the dining room that is the first door I cross with the starting run in the hallway.
There are 4 doorways I'll cross in the hallway, the aforementioned bath and a bedroom behind the start line and another bedroom and a basement door opposite the start line.
So my biggest concern is to balance the start line for a good transition in both the dining room and bathroom.

I don't know what the finish is, like I mentioned I bought flooring at auction. Common #2 Gunstock Red Oak with a low luster finish. At $2 a square it was a good price to me. I was planning on experimenting with wood finish to see what's compatible. I believe the finish is some kind of poly finish, just got to sand it and see if it has any alum oxide in it.

I've already decided to undercut the sheetrock as well and get a better fit to the door case trim. Do my best to do it right.

If you want I can post a pic tonight looking along the hall showing the area that we've been discussing.

Are you undercutting the door case trim? If not, consider doing it....the flooring will fit under it and look good....oscillating multi tool works great for this. Do you know who manufactured your flooring? If so, contact them to get the details on the finish....most prefinished flooring has a semi gloss poly on it.

 

[NH-Okie]

Oh yeah, I'm undercutting them and the sheetrock to get my gap and fit under the case trim. Borrowing an oscillating tool from a friend.

The cartons are plain jane, no manufacturer just a description of material, "Builders Grade" and a part number (which I tried looking up). The back of the wood is marked NOFMA 110 and some mill name in Virginia. Don't off hand remember the name right now. The finish is like I said low luster near a satin which I like, didn't want shiny floors.

 

[JIMMIEM]

Oh yeah, I'm undercutting them and the sheetrock to get my gap and fit under the case trim. Borrowing an oscillating tool from a friend.

The cartons are plain jane, no manufacturer just a description of material, "Builders Grade" and a part number (which I tried looking up). The back of the wood is marked NOFMA 110 and some mill name in Virginia. Don't off hand remember the name right now. The finish is like I said low luster near a satin which I like, didn't want shiny floors.

Use good blades in the oscillating tool when you cut the casings. Junk blades for the sheetrock. You can buy an oscillating tool at Harbor Freight for about $15. The Harbor Freight blades are cheap and junk...ok for sheetrock.
FWIW check out the wood manufacturer...with prefinished flooring the milling makes a big difference in the final outcome i.e. overwood, etc.

 

[NH-Okie]

I've attached photos of the area we've discussed. One: along the peninsula, edge of the dining area and hall, Two: better shot of the wall intersection, Three: a shot of the dining area and bathroom doorway transitions - they are not equal, the dining area extends back 4 1/2" from the wall and the bath goes 4".

I've sent an e-mail to Adams Lumber Co. Brookneal Va. requesting available information

 

[JIMMIEM]

Is the photo 3 picture of the dining area where the transition/reducer that we have been discussing will be? What about a transition to the bathroom tile?

 

[NH-Okie]

Yes, that's the transition we've been talking about. The bathroom extends back 1/2" less than the dining area. If I plan it right a little trimming on the transition edge will give me a good fit.