leveling floor for laminate

[OldHome]

Hello,

I am in the process of laying a new laminate floor in my kitchen, I will be replacing vinyl tiles that are on top of a luan subfloor.
From what I have been reading, the subfloor should be level to an 1/8 of an inch. I have an area were the floor has settled and the difference is about 1/2" , my first through was to use levelQuik to fix this, however the direction state that it should be used on concrete or exterior grade plywood. My other idea is to use some luan to shim that area to make it closer to the 1/8 that it needs to be, I know this way is a half ass way to do it, but I feel my only other option is to replace the entire subfloor after I remove about an inch of older flooring that has been there since 1890!

I looking for some advice from more experienced installers then myself, I look forward to hearing your advice.

Thank You

John

 

[rugaddict]

im unsure of how much square footage wise you are trying to level--but in general on wood subfloors i like to use wood products---my go to leveler is usually cedar shakes---they are pre beveled and a real breeze to use--other floor guys like to use patching compounds but on wood my concern is that it will crack like crazy---better info gets you better answers

 

[FloorMaven]

Looks like your problem is about 6" from a wall. Attach a 1/2" nailer at the wall to screed a Portland cement patch with an acrylic or latex admix.

 

[OldHome]

Thank You ! Rugaddict, The Kitchen is 170 sq ft. Using the shakes will be the perfect solution as the sub floor may have dips that exceed the 1/8" minimum. I am just wondering , can the shakes be used over the under layment ? And should I nail them down? The big problems I can fix before hand, like the picture I posted.

 

[rugaddict]

yes the shakes can go right over the plywood--that is one of their advantages--as for fastening--what i use is my electric stapler that i use for carpet---you most likely dont have one of those--i suggest a ring shank nail as any common nail will work itself loose---dont fasten too close to the edge as you will split the shake--but to honest with you as this is going under a floating floor --i.e. no glue--heck you could glue them down and it wouldnt matter---construction adhesive should do the trick

 

[FloorMaven]

---they are pre beveled and a real breeze to use--

Aren't they 18" long and max 3/8" thick?

 

[DarisMulkin]

Aren't they 18" long and max 3/8" thick?

You can get longer and thicker I believe. I ran into them at 2' and a 1/2" thick at fat end. I use my pneumatic staple gun to put them down, they don't split. But they have been put down with shingle nails for hundreds of years I would guess. One thing I do though is staple the feather edge with my pad stapler then feather it off with fill.

Daris

 

[FloorMaven]

When I used shingles I used the under course. Much cheaper and easier to work with. In this situation I don't see shingles as the best option given the half inch drop in 5 or 6 inches or so. How would you make an 18" shingle work?

Carpet shims at 1/2" x 8" would be a better option then cedar shingles. But still not the best option.

http://www.carpetshims.com/choosing_the_right_shims.html

 

[rugaddict]

if the question is how to reduce the length of an 18 inch cedar shake to 6 inch may i propose the radical concept of cutting them---im nothing if not helpful--your welcome

 

[FloorMaven]

---im nothing if not helpful--

Admittedly, I'm not the brightest bulb in the bunch. Maybe you can walk me through it...starting with how you would utilize the cut ends?

 

[Nick]

Kindling .

 

[OldHome]

Well, I ( finished ) installing the floor, and I must say it looks like hell. It seems that the floor needs to be much more flat ( level ) then I had expected. it looks like I may have to go back to square one, and take up the floor and the underlayment, remove the subfloor and add exterior grade ply wood so I can use the floor leveler. UGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!
I think it is time to call a pro. at least to level the floor. I worry that I can not do the floor leveling mysealf, a pro could have it done in no time. My question is, can I use the self leveling product on luan ? ( the bag says no ) what say you ? and can I nail or staple this down? ( I do not think so, but.... ) here are some photos for your enjoyment.

After laying the first 3 courses this is what the floor looked like, I should have stopped !

The second photo is a close up of one of the biggest spaces

The third is what part of the floor looks like.

All in all it looks better then what was there but I know at this point it is time to take it up.

 

[FloorMaven]

TGFGL = thank god for glueless laminate. What I'd really like to see is the overall condition of your subfloor to access why it's not flat.

 

[OldHome]

My only explanation is this , one the house was built in 1890 and lot of settling has happened and two the old floor that is still there is this tar like sheathing over some kind of 1/2 "compressed cardboard subfloor. My first instinct was to remove the whole floor down too the original boards and start fresh. But my wife felt that would be overboard. But with these old houses I have found that most of the problems come from past upgrades and repairs. Go figure. Thank you for responding. Love to hear your throughs.

 

[FloorMaven]

You don't get to be 120 years old without life taking its toll.

I think your wife is right, that's a can of worms that's better left unopened, especially for the sake plastic laminate.

I use a product called planipatch and it can be used on "other approved wood underlayments (per flooring manufacturer’s recommendations)". Levelquik is pretty much the same. The point is its not as critical cause you're not sticking anything to it but you want it to stick. So try a small test area, get used to working with it and if it sticks you're golden. Use an admix and I'd be willing to bet that will solve your problem.

You might also consider a bit more forgiving product like Allure.

 

[rugaddict]

yo homey---we gotta get you back off the ledge---this is what your pics tell me---1---this is normal--different brands have different click mechanisms that engage with a lot or very little play---the planks are not yet together--tapping them together will make that last plank lay down flat----pic 2 and pic 3---everything is wrong here--all the planks need to click together before you move on to the next plank---this is not negotiable---they either snap together or must be tapped together but the must go together---none of your pics are an obvious result of an uneven floor ---they indicate perhaps a poor click mechanism or a warped plank or a lack of patience with a stubborn laminate---helpful hint for today----never use a tapping block directly on the tounge and grooves---instead use a scrap peice of the plank snapped into the plank --then tap that---good luck

 

[OldHome]

Thanks for your replies, I now have a few ideas to try. But I will say this first. The product I am using is the Allure traffic master, funny you mentioned it. I am unsure how to use that leveling stuff, what do I use for a base measurement for a level surface. I hope I am making sence?

Addict,
When I first layed the floor the planks did snap together it was only when I started to add more did the come apart usually a few courses out. This is why I believe it is the unevenness of he floor,however I will revisit this idea and also use what you said about banging them together, I did use a piece of scape to bang them but not the way you decribed. Actually Addict, you are not that far from me, I live in Chepachet, RI the North West part of the state , maybe I can hire you?
I'll keep you posted. And thanks again you guys have been great!

 

[highup]

Pertaining to the gaping on some of the installed boards. I assume that's all the closer that you could get some of those boards to lock?

On important thing to not overlook, is inspecting each board thoroughly.
Not just the top surface, and not just the corners, but also the tongues and grooves.
Run a short, stiff brush or even a cheap plastic putty knife through every groove on every plank to be sure no chips of material from the manufacturing, and packaging process fell in there. If there is a wood chip inside the groove, it will not compress very well and can make it so that the boards will not lock together without a gap. These products are machined with very tight tolerances, so there can be no "crap" hidden inside the grooves. You won't know unless you inspect them.
Look for damage to the tongue edges too.

What I do, is find a good, hard lighting source such as light coming into a room from a single window. Multiple lights and or florescent lighting is horrible for inspecting the surfaces for flaws.
I actually scan each board from the box, looking and "feeling" the surface and edges for flaws. Run a stiff bristle cleaning brush inside the grooves to dislodge any 'foreigners' ......I mean foreign objects.

I do 3 to 5 boxes at a time, and I put a small piece of blue tape on any edge, or corner that I see an issue with. Put all the boards with blue tape on them in a separate stack and use those boards for the end cuts....... (first and last boards in a row) Yes, it takes up some time, but why inspect when you begin to see a problem? Why inspect when you see a problem three rows back that you already installed?

Basically, just be sure the boards are all in good condition so they will lock together without any problems.

When boards come apart after installation, a floor that is not flat enough would be my first guess............ so get it flat. Not level, just flat.
I'm with floormaven on leveling out those the edges. If one side is consistently 1/2 inch low............. or 3/8 low or whatever. Nail down a one inch wide board of the required thickness next to the wall and then screed it out with a floor patch. Hard to find a shingle, shake or shim that has an angle that matches your specific situation. Floor patch comes in thousands of angles.

 

[OldHome]

I would like to use a product like planipatch or levelquick however the line, "Do not apply over self-stick tile, presswood, particleboard, flakeboard or similar types of dimensionally unstable substrate." is what stops me, would luan be considered one of these types of " dimensionally unstable substrate." I will admit I really do not understand the term "dimensionally unstable substrate" to me it sounds like, maybe a rug, grass, a section of rotting wood, but luan over 60 year old vinly, over 1/2" pressed board, on top of 1" floor boards, seems to be rigid enough, maybe I will get a small bag tomorrow, but how do I know that this lever is laying flat? Do I rent or buy one of those 4' trowles you see on TV or just use a 2x4 to spread it out?

 

[FloorMaven]

similar types of dimensionally unstable substrate." is what stops me, would luan be considered one of these types of " dimensionally unstable substrate."

A dimensionally stable product is one that has a minimal change in size due to environmental conditions. Luan was the underlayment of choice back in the day. You need to check the subfloor for flatness. You can use a piece of your floor on edge or a level. Hopefully you can trowel the material, the attached video shows the basic idea. In a pinch you can use a floor board to spread wide areas. Start very small.


[ame]http://youtu.be/mOhogoVrwhY[/ame]