LVP over 1880's Floor

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BrendanK

New Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2023
Messages
4
Location
Saratoga Springs NY
We are planning a LVP project (our first attempt) that will be going atop an old knotty wide plank (6") floor that is most likely original to the circa 1880 building the apartment is located in. Obvious settling has occurred, with on large area that is depressed a good 1/2" or more.

From our first looks at installation guide videos, getting as solid a foundation as possible seems key to making this a project a success. The existing flooring has many gaps in between floorboards, with some that have been filled with various things over the years that are still holding, lots of other areas are loose or open. Our plan was to fill every opening, and use some subflooring for the recessed dip, so we can use a leveler to get a level foundation to begin with.

Here is what the floor looks like for reference.

Should we use a crack filler for the gaps and cracks (maybe with rope in the bigger ones as a base) to prep for putting down the self-leveling mix next? Seal it before self-leveling? New to this, so open to hearing all advice and suggestions on the project. We will probably have more questions as we proceed, but wanted to start with wrapping our heads around step one.
1683306876181.JPEG
 
I wouldn't try to use self leveler over that. First make sure all those boards are secure, Screws, nails whatever. Use some 1/4" plywood or luan, roofing shingles, and felt paper to fill in the dips and get it as flat as you can. Then slap a layer of 1/2" plywood over the whole thing.
 
In addition to what CJ said, I'd think it best to put the screws in the center of each existing board. That would allow each individual board to expand and contract a minuscule amount on its own.
A miniscule x 30= 30 miniscules.
Keep that in mind. 😉
 
In addition to what CJ said, I'd think it best to put the screws in the center of each existing board. That would allow each individual board to expand and contract a minuscule amount on its own.
A miniscule x 30= 30 miniscules.
Keep that in mind. 😉
Like Highup said, all wood expands and contracts. You must allow it to do that or it will split.
 
Plywood and roofing felt is the ticket to flattening your floor.

I’d hate to see you put a lot of time and energy into flattening your floor and still have a failure so I got some questions.

How solid is your floor. Does it have any bounce to it when you walk around. Any weak areas that may sag or dip when you walk around. What product(s) are you looking at installing in your house. Glue down or floating. If floating, what kind. SPC, WPC, LVP, some engineered combination of something.
 
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At the very least I'd go with the felt layers and 1/4" ply.

Depending on how much bounce there is in that structure and depending on what you can do to get under there and beef up the structure with sister joists, maybe some additional posts and blocking the above recommended 1/2" ply over the 1/4" ply may be the way to go.

To be clear; If the subfloor is fairly solid and just needs flattening you can squeak by with the felt shimming layers and then 1/4". In many cases it's not feasible to get underneath and upgrade the main structural support system. (joists, beams, posts and such). Then you'd want to go with that top layer of 1/2" to lessen that movement that ultimately impacts the long term integrity of the installation.

Another point to clarify is that the floating systems are the ones that much more require STABLE and FLAT than a glue-down method. On a glue down you can actually glue vinyl on ramps and slope to drains and "roll" over other fairly serious imperfects-------a lot is related to cosmetic appeal. Lumpy, wavy vinyl floors look like crap but they'll JUST require extra effort to clean. Floating floors FAIL in an un-flat and/or unsound substrate because they interlock with a.............cheap, flimsy click-together construction.
 
The OP mentioned the dip going down more than 1/2". Felt is great for fine tuning but he's gonna need something more substantial to get started in the deepest part.... The final layer to cover it all shouldn't be anything less than 1/2" ply.... In my humble opinion.
 
Well on the subject of felt.
I once installed Wilsonart and Pergo flooring in a double octagon home built in the 70s.
Everywhere you walked there was a crackle sound. It didn't have nearly enough nails. The sound was from the felt paper sticking and unsticking where you stepped.
Could this not happen with layers of felt too?
 
Well on the subject of felt.
I once installed Wilsonart and Pergo flooring in a double octagon home built in the 70s.
Everywhere you walked there was a crackle sound. It didn't have nearly enough nails. The sound was from the felt paper sticking and unsticking where you stepped.
Could this not happen with layers of felt too?

I’ve seen that when felt is installed on top of something sticky without skimming it to encapsulate the sticky first.
 
Plywood and roofing felt is the ticket to flattening your floor.

I’d hate to see you put a lot of time and energy into flattening your floor and still have a failure so I got some questions.

How solid is your floor. Does it have any bounce to it when you walk around. Any weak areas that may sag or dip when you walk around. What product(s) are you looking at installing in your house. Glue down or floating. If floating, what kind. SPC, WPC, LVP, some engineered combination of something.
Thanks for the reply.
The floor is very solid, except from the settling of a 150 year old 3 story Victorian giving us some height variations. There are some loose squeaking nails that give a hint of flex that we plan to tighten up with screws, but nothing really bouncing at all.

One shaky 12" board under a radiator we will shore up, and the main area of concern (roughly 6 foot x 5 foot) that has settled in the entry foyer, off of which is the living room, bedroom, and bathroom that we plan to float LVP. Of course if a glue based option would work better, we'd look into that.
We've attached photos of both issues

In that area there was a fix (generous to call it that) with some 1x12 stock spanning 4 or so boards. One is solid, but forms the 1/2" lip between the front and rear of the run, and the one adjacent has bounce and needs to be inspected further.

20230507_113417.jpg20230507_113446.jpg20230507_113452.jpg
 
I do believe it would be a crime to cover up that beautiful 140 year old floor with anything other than area rugs. The money that you will spend on a new floor could be put towards having those floors brought back to life. There, I said it.
 
I always cringed at covering up a beautiful old wood floor with carpet. Now, many of those are having the carpet come up and are being restored. My house has all hardwood floors from 1900.
 
That's a pretty severe drop. What's that on the right side in the two photos that are very similar? Is the whole floor going to be flushed out through that area or are you stopping somewhere under a door------meeting up against ceramic tile, top of stairwell?..........I want to know what effect any increases or decrease in finish elevation will have on other aspects of the construction...........will the doors need to be trimmed?

Without more perspective I'm inclined to recommend demo that wood floor out of there and reconstuct the subloor from scratch. You almost certainly will be shimming with structural members and then a heavy layer of subfloor-----3/4' ply or OSB. Not sure if you're up to that as far as skill level. Installing LVP is one of the easy DIY tasks for a homeowner. Fixing, flattening, leveling, transitions, elevations and subfloor..............not so much. As an inspector I had to verify all these sorts of details before, during and after construction.

Unlike some of the others here I'm not a fan of that particular old solid wood. It could be brought back to virtually new condition with some great effort and expense and would be pretty nice. But that's something I would want to remove or cover in my own home. Gotta be tough to maintain that.
 
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Thanks for all the responses, it's really helped us figure everything out. We've decided that our best option will be to put aside the LVP approach for now in favor of a three step approach:
Step 1, shim the drooping boards up to something close to level. Step 2, tighten everything up, and fill in the gaps. And step 3, finish everything with a good coat of paint. We actually did something like this on a similarly old floor using a paint our building supplier offers that's designed for use on the inside of boilers and after over 10 years it's proved super durable.
We're mostly confident that we can pull off this plan and get a nice looking floor at the end. The one thing we're feeling uncertian about is filling the gaps between the boards. Some of the old patching compound is still there, some has cracked and come loose, any suggestions on a patching compound that'll have the right flexibility?
Also, some of the floor boards were swapped out at some point in the past. They're level with the rest of the floor (Except the big dip from the previous picture, but most are about twice as wide as most of the boards. Our plan was to cut a groove with a circular saw to make them stand out less once the paint was on.Floor5.jpg
Again, thanks to everyone for the assistance and advice.
 

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