Mohawk click engineered.

[driftinwoods]

New one to me. Stickers saying I am supposed to do their work for them.
They should be ashamed to put their name on this.
1 mm lamella over supposed waterproof MDF.
One end has a dang sticker. The other has a huge split.

 

[C.J.]

I’m not seeing the problem. Then again this is the world I live in. Those boards with imperfections are coming down the factory line whether you like it or not and you darn well know the responsibility of catching and cutting that kind of crap out is on you, which is prolly why you’re pissed off. I get it. At least they put a sticker on it to make it obvious that there’s a defect there and that you need to cut it out. If catching and cutting out those imperfections is too much to deal with then leave those gravy train jobs for me. I’ll catch that shit and cut it out with a smile on my face. It’s like taking candy from a baby. I feel like floating floors are a gift from the heavens to make up for all the other shit I’ve eaten in floor covering for umpteen years. Hell, for $2.50 a sq ft you can even call me dirty names while I’m workin for ya. If you’re good enough* lookin, I’ll let you do it for free

 

[C.J.]

One end has a dang sticker. The other has a huge split.

A split is a natural feature of wood. Could even be considered a desirable visual aspect of the product. Under the sticker is an unacceptable flaw that has to be cut out no matter what. That’s the difference between the two ends.

Now as far as why they would allow an unacceptable defect to pass down the production line? Because unless there’s more than 10% of said defects it’s not considered unacceptable and the installer is expected to cull those boards. So now let’s say you have a 5% defect rate in your material, as long as you have ample waste you’ll be just fine. Cut n run, cash that check and don’t look back. Welcome to America, right. But as far as the manufacturer is concerned they just cut their waste factor by a significant amount.

That’s life, don’t sweat it. Learn to roll with the punches. These floors are stupid easy. If you have the skill to make the 4 or 5 important areas look good on a job then you’re already miles ahead of the rest of the pack. I know you want your shit to look good but there’s a reason the customer chose that specific floor and I guarantee you it wasn’t because of quality.

We’re a cheap nation obsessed with outcheaping our last act if cheapness but at the same time we want the visual of stepping up and doing better for ourselves in the world. It’s a game, it really is, but then again so is life.

 

[JPfloor]

I’d rather have them put a sticker on it than possibly overlook it, install it, and have to change it later…

 

[Tile Tom]

At least they were cool enough to put the stickers on the defective spots.

Can’t tell ya how many times I was rolling strong at cruising altitude then looked behind me to see one I should have caught in the first place.

 

[driftinwoods]

Well that whole plank should never have gotten in the box. That's just over 5 sf per plank. Per plank, again 5 sf per plank.
So I gotta cut off ends or centers and try to figure out where to use them.
At 2 stickered planks per box 50% of the time that's horse shit.
I'll never install it again. I told my account manager to toss the samples.

 

[driftinwoods]

At least they were cool enough to put the stickers on the defective spots.

Can’t tell ya how many times I was rolling strong at cruising altitude then looked behind me to see one I should have caught in the first place.

Then your not paying attention

 

[C.J.]

Then your not paying attention

And that’s why the sticker is there. Lol. We all know there are less than stellar products out there but installing some of those garbage products puts steak on the table for a lot of installers so we just find ways to accept it for what it is and move on. Or you could always install carpet

Serious question for ya: Was the customer happy when you were done?

 

[JPfloor]

Well that whole plank should never have gotten in the box. That's just over 5 sf per plank. Per plank, again 5 sf per plank.
So I gotta cut off ends or centers and try to figure out where to use them.
At 2 stickered planks per box 50% of the time that's horse shit.
I'll never install it again. I told my account manager to toss the samples.

Did ya run short on the job?

 

[driftinwoods]

I'm installing right over newly installed wood look porcelain tile the owner hates.
I have to say it's the ugliest tile I even seen.
But kudos to the tile guys. Flattest tile job I ever seen.

Did ya run short on the job?

No she bought 20% extra. I would have if she had bought 10% like I said.

"Serious question for ya: Was the customer happy when you were done?"

My customers are always happy.

Here's the deal, I wasted 10% easy. So no, we really didn't save the trees. I've never waster more than 5%. Friggin piles of waste.

 

[JPfloor]

I'm installing right over newly installed wood look porcelain tile the owner hates.
I have to say it's the ugliest tile I even seen.
But kudos to the tile guys. Flattest tile job I ever seen.

Your work looks great but I dunno how much kudos I’d give the tile guys… Shoulda been randomly staggered.

 

[C.J.]

I understand the frustration 100%.

An extra 5% of waste from you is nothing in comparison to the amount of money that Mohawk saves by allowing those types of character features to pass QC. If you think about it, that split at the end of the board COULD have been used somewhere if you really needed it to be. If that was your last board and you needed it to complete a job, you coulda stuck it in the back of a closet, put some putty in the crack and been done with the whole thing. I know putty isn’t an installation tool but you better have some on your truck. You don’t have to like it but that is reality for a lot of installers out there cus you know almost nobody is ordering 20% over just because. Lowes and HD hover right around 7%. Believe you me, I’ve ran into that exact situation more than once and I’m sure I was even more pissed off then than you are now.

Now I just charge more and roll with the punches when they come.

 

[Incognito]

And that’s why the sticker is there. Lol. We all know there are less than stellar products out there but installing some of those garbage products puts steak on the table for a lot of installers so we just find ways to accept it for what it is and move on. Or you could always install carpet

Serious question for ya: Was the customer happy when you were done?

Ha!

What do they know?

 

[C.J.]

Ha!

What do they know?

The average installer doesn’t even know what they don’t know, but I know and I know you know so there you go.

 

[driftinwoods]

I understand the frustration 100%.

An extra 5% of waste from you is nothing in comparison to the amount of money that Mohawk saves by allowing those types of character features to pass QC. If you think about it, that split at the end of the board COULD have been used somewhere if you really needed it to be. If that was your last board and you needed it to complete a job, you coulda stuck it in the back of a closet, put some putty in the crack and been done with the whole thing. I know putty isn’t an installation tool but you better have some on your truck. You don’t have to like it but that is reality for a lot of installers out there cus you know almost nobody is ordering 20% over just because. Lowes and HD hover right around 7%. Believe you me, I’ve ran into that exact situation more than once and I’m sure I was even more pissed off then than you are now.

Now I just charge more and roll with the punches when they come.

Yeah sure, putty smutty. Those splits are dangerous and can cause people to get splinters up their foot.
I cull lots of unsound knots mineral streaks, live edges on planks. And still not hit ten percent.
Yes, they saved lots of money but in doing that ripped off the consumer by selling them junk. Pretty much Tavern grade veneer. I see pallets that are a better grade than this stuff. LOL
Most of my white oak engineered is No 2 grade if not select.

 

[Tile Tom]

Then your not paying attention

Clearly neither are you if you can’t wrap your mind around there being defects in WOOD. You must not do too much big boy 3/4 hardwood.
Keep it up kid. You’ll be an installer one day.

 

[driftinwoods]

Clearly neither are you if you can’t wrap your mind around there being defects in WOOD. You must not do too much big boy 3/4 hardwood.
Keep it up kid. You’ll be an installer one day.

That is funny. I have 3 different nailers.
There's just as many defects in engineered as solid if not more.
There's this thing called grading rules. Wood science. Maybe some day you'll get learned.
You wanna talk about some slop installing. Nailing isn't difficult at all. Pretty mindless and mundane. Kinda like setting tile.
I took my first wood science course at Virginia Tech twenty years ago. In their science labs from wood scientists.

 

[C.J.]

What does a course in wood science have to do with the fact that Mohawk allows inclusions into their product that you find unacceptable. Maybe a business course would have been a better fit. I get that you’re a decent installer that knows his shit, I can tell that just by what you say but we’re talkin about floating floors here for cryin out loud. They are what they are and you either take it or leave it. If you don’t like it then just stay home, or take the jobs with a high technical degree of skill that don’t pay shit but you feel good at the end of the day cus I sure ain’t doin them. I don’t hear you posting about losing money on that job, just complaining about having an extra 5% waste, that you didn’t have to pay for by the way. Cut that shit out and cash your check, don’t make this any harder than it already is cus you’re ruining it for the rest of us.

Nothin personal, just sayin.

 

[driftinwoods]

Cut that shit out and cash your check, don’t make this any harder than it already is cus you’re ruining it for the rest of us.

Actually to the contrary. And thats a rude comment I'll let slide this time.

What does a course in wood science have to do with the fact that Mohawk allows inclusions into their product that you find unacceptable.

Seriously? What does wood science have to do with installing hardwood flooring? That may be the dumbest question I've ever heard on a flooring forum.

Took me extra time to cut and try to fit in the pieces due to their not wanting to do it at the mill like many other mils. Time = money.
Buy posting this about their "new" product they call UltraWood ( what a joke) is just a warning to installers and consumers they are not culling out what they should.
And yes, knowing what wood science and grading rules is something every installer should know.
Here's an ad they talk about saving ten times the amount of wood as the traditional QA that is typical in the industry.
This is because they are making the installer do the work.
Oh sure I could have walked off the job, had her send it back but I rarely do that unless it's a definite manufacturing issue.
Also the interwebs will pick this up, yes even the Mohawk people. So possible they might want to rethink this shady business model.

MohawkFlooring

www.mohawkflooring.com

10X More Flooring​

The UltraWood manufacturing process delivers 10X more natural hardwood floors per log when compared to traditional hardwood flooring production.

VS.

 

[JPfloor]

Aside from the excessive waste how do you like the product?

I have the same situation in my home. Ceramic we hate but don’t want to go through the demo. I hate floating floors too but I’m thinking maybe I’d hate it a little less than the ceramic. I really have no clue which products are the best these days. Won’t use vinyl, has to be wood…. Any tips? Anyone? Glue vs click?