Peach glue for sheet vinyl

[highup]

Yup, a high quality 5 ply 1/4" underlayment. I'm sanding the seams and won't use any filler on them as they will be butted lightly. I did a floor with 32 sheets of this 4' by 5' underlayment and didn't open a bag of filler on the entire job.
If I can begin/position the underlayment correctly, a pattern line in the vinyl will reside directly over the plywood seams.
The plywood has green X's where you place the staples. I usually use 1 1/4" staples on everything.
This new 1/4" plywood I'm installing, is being installed over two layers of thin peel and stick vinyl which is on 1/2" plywood. The 1/2" plywood is nailed to 3/4" fir flooring.
If I use 1" staples, I will over penetrate the 1/2 inch plywood by about 1/4".

 

[Jon]

If I can begin/position the underlayment correctly, a pattern line in the vinyl will reside directly over the plywood seams.
The plywood has green X's where you place the staples. QUOTE]

Wouldn't bother doing that as if the moisture from the glue shifts the ply sideways that tiny fraction causing that inverted "V" it will still show
I try to keep the joins out of line of sight, we don't use ply just 8ft x 4ft 4.75mm MDF
From the photos of fixing ply the outside X's seem a bit far from the edges to me

 

[highup]

The v would show more if it was in the center of the pattern than if hidden in the 'grout line'
The sheets I'm using are 4' by 5'. The vinyl is 6 inches between the grout lines so it works to center them if possible.

 

[Jon]

The v would show more if it was in the center of the pattern than if hidden in the 'grout line'
The sheets I'm using are 4' by 5'. The vinyl is 6 inches between the grout lines so it works to center them if possible.

Still would not bother as if it was going to show it will still be there
Just keep the underlayment joins out of line of sight

 

[Jon]

Well have you sorted it yet?

 

[highup]

Yup. I used the grout line locations as the start/stop points for my adhesive application. I do that often. I made all but one of the underlayment seams end under grout lines also.

 

[highup]

I my mentioning of the grout lines that I centered over the plywood are only in the width of the room. I didn't center grout lines in all directions........... that would make me even more crazy.
The home is old. The heating system is poorly located, so if the floor expands and contracts summer to winter, the grout lines hide underlayment seams better than if something moves in the center of the pattern. It didn't really take any more time positioning the underlayment to achieve my goal.
The vinyl isn't much thicker than a credit cad, so I prepped the floor as if I was installing wallpaper.

 

[Jon]

Yup. I used the grout line locations as the start/stop points for my adhesive application. I do that often. I made all but one of the underlayment seams end under grout lines also.

Don't know your glues
If I let a glue tack off I roll the vinyl into say one foot of the wet glue and let the rest dry
Now its easy to pull the other half of the room back without crease marks as the glue is still wet and then it will dry as normal with the glue you have just spread

 

[highup]

Life was so simple with felt backed material. I have never felt comfortable since it all (most of it) changed to vinyl backed goods............... to many manufacturers and each has their own installation recommendations/procedures
I only let this Armstrong S288 adhesive tack for 5 minutes or less. Looks like it grabbed good.

 

[highup]

The install is done except for the small laundry room. This will be a nightmare all in itself. I'm hoping that an overlay with 1/2" plywood will be good enough.

 

[Jon]

Life was so simple with felt backed material. I have never felt comfortable since it all (most of it) changed to vinyl backed goods............... to many manufacturers and each has their own installation recommendations/procedures
I only let this Armstrong S288 adhesive tack for 5 minutes or less. Looks like it grabbed good.

And how do you think we got on when these backings changed AND we cut the vinyl neatly into the skirting boards. NO GAPS and nothing covering the edges afterwards
It was a learning curve for us as these backings wouldn't stretch or shrink in like the old backings
At least you have a good teacher from New Zealand to teach you
Trust Me

 

[Jon]

The install is done except for the small laundry room. This will be a nightmare all in itself. I'm hoping that an overlay with 1/2" plywood will be good enough.

If its a pokey area Make a pattern for the underlayment then use the same pattern for the vinyl
OKAY?

 

[highup]

I pattern a lot, but not in this last room. It's just 2 1/2 sheets of 4x8 plywood and this old place has curves and slopes to deal with. It's a nightmare house built in the early 40s. I think this old laundry room was tacked on after the home was built. There is no correct way to do flooring work in a home that really needs a can of petro and a match.

 

[Jon]

I pattern a lot, but not in this last room. It's just 2 1/2 sheets of 4x8 plywood and this old place has curves and slopes to deal with.

Thats the time to pattern

 

[highup]

Much more complex area than I can describe. Make a pattern on a floor that's got a fan shaped 2 inch bow in it and cut out the pattern on a flat surface elsewhere and it ain't gonna be the correct shape.
I am going to remove an aluminum screen door, raise it two inches and make the vinyl ramp upwards gradually for 18 inches into the hallway to create a slope instead of the current 'step up' which raise up 4 inches in a 5 inch wide doorway. I can accurately pattern anything Jon. I never learned how to freehand installations. I'd pattern a 5 foot square closet with straight sides and one doorway because I never learned how to hack stuff in.

 

[Incognito]

Much more complex area than I can describe. Make a pattern on a floor that's got a fan shaped 2 inch bow in it and cut out the pattern on a flat surface elsewhere and it ain't gonna be the correct shape.
I am going to remove an aluminum screen door, raise it two inches and make the vinyl ramp upwards gradually for 18 inches into the hallway to create a slope instead of the current 'step up' which raise up 4 inches in a 5 inch wide doorway. I can accurately pattern anything Jon. I never learned how to freehand installations. I'd pattern a 5 foot square closet with straight sides and one doorway because I never learned how to hack stuff in.

Our guys don't get to pattern hardly anything. When there's that kind of material or that kind of a challenge they send "the old man" out (by himself) and that leaves the kids assed out from ever learning how to pattern scribe accurately and efficiently.

Without practice and lots of experience making a pattern is intimidating, awkward, RISKY. and pretty damn slow. I try to give them a chance now and again when there's an opportunity. Lots of situations I deal with can be done freehand or pattern. We usually freehand because it's faster in most instances. The "kids" choose to freehand because that's all they know how to do well.

Right now there's about a dozen or so hard surface journeyman that bounce in and out of our shop. We'll argue over when, where and why we want to freehand or pattern an area.

Somedays it just depends on what kind of mood you're in or IF the shop even sends out the felt. I normally stash a roll in the van or truck but not always.

 

[Floorist]

I went to the Armstrong classes on patterning, but I've only done it a couple times. Free handing is faster and just as easy to me.

 

[DarisMulkin]

I've pattern scribe carpet a few times, when there are lots of angles and the pattern has to come back around and match.

Daris

 

[highup]

Somedays it just depends on what kind of mood you're in or IF the shop even sends out the felt. I normally stash a roll in the van or truck but not always.

I've been using Aquabar-B for patterning. Gotta look for a roll thats round and has good ends without dents or damage.

I went to the Armstrong classes on patterning, but I've only done it a couple times. Free handing is faster and just as easy to me.

The reason I pattern a lot is because it's easier to make an unsquare room look square, center a toilet on a pattern and put the grout lines exactly where I want them all at the same time. You can shift the pattern to and fro in tiny amounts until you get the best average of all of the elements of the room. I find myself on a lot of jobs that are too oddly shaped for me to comfortably cut in. I guess I just learned to pattern and I like the process and accuracy.

 

[Incognito]

I went to the Armstrong classes on patterning, but I've only done it a couple times. Free handing is faster and just as easy to me.

Sometimes the guys with little or no pattern scribing ability are running jobs and try to tell me to freehand areas or certain kinds of goods that there's simply NO F'n WAY I'm going whack that in.

Case in Point; 12MM Mondo in a high school gym, locker rooms and on the last day as I was leaving the foreman asked me how to do a mechanical room/closet with a hot water heater and some other pipes and crap sticking up. Now we're packing up and it's the end of the day and I'm not going back to do that room and he's trying to argue with me that it's feasible to whack 10MM rubber arround the hot water tank and all those pipes.

Of course it's POSSIBLE. You might even get it past inspection and get paid.

It's just very, very stupid to do it that way. No way in hell it's going to come out near as sweet as using a pattern and I guarantee you it's MUCH MUCH faster to do that particular type room with that particular material by pattern scribing. Likewise with standard commercial gauge linoleum with cuts like those you would ABSOLUTELY NEED to make a pattern. Rubber is a little easier to freehand-------but NOT 10MM

I felt sorry for the poor SOB who had to do that room the next day. I know damn well the foreman wasn't going in there-----not to even so much as look. I can only hope he took my advice and gave the poor bastard a roll of pattern felt.