Pre-Finished or Finished On Site

[wcheaib]

Sorry for the delay. Here's the latest from my contractor. He suggested I buy Sheoga engineered unfinished (https://www.sheogaflooring.com). Looks like a really nice product with 5.25mm of top layer and 3/4" thick. I spoke to the Sheoga rep and he recommended two options for my situation (below is his email):

You can use a 1 step product (glue & moisture barrier) or a separate glue and moisture barrier. I would suggest GreenForce as a 1 step product, or MVP4/Best as the 2 step products. There is more labor involved in the 2 step process, but it’s much easier to get the 100% coverage/transfer needed to get the moisture protection needed. I have attached the data sheets for the products mentioned. Both these options offer protection from an unlimited amount of moisture vapor.

 

[highup]

Curious more about the sump pumps. Opposite sides of the house? How often do they come on?
I'm not really familiar with how they are designed. A deep hole full of rocks?

 

[highup]

One test worth considering would be a calcium chloride test for an emissions rate. Setting a few of those kits would at least give you a number so you know what you are dealing with.

http://www.vaprecision.com/calcium-chloride-moisture-test-kits/

http://www.vaprecision.com/wp-conte...hydrous_Calcium_Chloride_Kit_Instructions.pdf

Did the original slab have any large cracks in it? Just curious why the leveler was poured.

 

[wcheaib]

So the basement is around 3,000 sf. The original basement was 2,200 sf and I dug out my backyard and added another 800 sf addition. The new addition is two steps below the existing basement. This has its own sump pump dead centre in the new addition. The existing basement also has a sump pump at the front of the house in the cold room. The sump pump in the addition comes on often given that area is lower. I also have a back up Generac in case the power goes down. All newer homes in Toronto have sump pumps in the basement.

I actually went out and picked up a Ryobi pinless moisture meter from Home Depot yesterday. I did a few readings and it came back dry. Where do you get the calcium chloride test from? Thanks

 

[Nick]

https://www.tools4flooring.com/taylor-625-cacl-moisture-test-kit-p-411.html

 

[wcheaib]

Thanks. I'm ordering it now. I have had 3 different hardwood contractors provide a quote. Not one of them mentioned this test. Bizarre.

Highup - the GC decided to pour a self leveling compound to level the floor. It wasn't perfectly leveled. There were very minor cracks but that's not the reason why the self leveler was poured.

 

[highup]

Them having no concern for moisture bothers me. Then again, people in your area may do this sort of thing all the time, so you may be fine.......... or more fine in the old part than the addition. It's lower so maybe it forces water to go to the lower level making the pump kick on more often. Water does that.
The pump comes on often showing you do have a water under the slab.
Re-thinking the moisture test, I'm wondering about the accuracy over a poured surface. It would be worth asking the place you order the kit from what their views are about that.

You need an accurate gram scale to do the measurements.
This is the one I bought. Ten years ago they cost more than twice as much. A scale going out one more decimal point would be nice...... but I'm not sure it would be needed.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FLCQKQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

These are small, and you can't use them to weigh heavy stuff. It will weigh one D size battery, but two C batteries are too heavy and cause the display to read: EEEEEEEEEE.
The box it came in had printed on it:
"Not for illegal use" I guess that means you might get coal in your stocking.

 

[highup]

Tanita makes another version that shows in grams ounces, troy ounces and pennyweight. ....if you weigh pennies.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046U2OZ4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[DarisMulkin]

On the calcium chloride tests read the directions and follow them very closely. I scrapped out over 10,000 sq.ft of tests because they were left 2 hours over the time limit. Also I don't know if they will work over self leveler. Been to long since I have done any.

 

[wcheaib]

This is wacky. The hardwood installer that was coming in to install the engineered hardwood did a moisture reading around the house. He used a machine called General (MMD7NP) and it retails for around $60. Every spot he checked, the machine beeped showing over 70% moisture over the self leveling areas and 100% over the concrete in the bathrooms. He recommended applying a product called Wakol PU280 Moisture Barrier before gluing down the hardwood.

I found it odd that the moisture coming from the slab was off the charts according to his meter. So I bought a Ryobi meter from Home Depot for $60 and another hardwood retailer lent me an expensive Tramex meter which retails for $600. I put in new batteries for everything. For the same area, the Ryobi and Tramex read 20%, whereas the General meter reads 80% (pic attached). Everything has been set to masonry. I don’t understand why the readings are so different.

 

[highup]

For wood flooring I think you want closer to 3% or 3lbs per 100 sq ft with a calcium chloride test? I'm not sure if those two tests can be related or compared to each other since they measure different things.
The real wood pros here can tell you how close I am.

 

[highup]

Is there any way to find out if the people that installed the self leveler used a primer or sealer. Can you contact them and find out?
How deep is the pour?
I don't think I'd buy a General. Ryobi reading the same as a pro meter makes my like it.

Hmm. Two meters read 20% but the General reads 80% 20%+80%= 100% right? Coincidence? .... this got me thinking maybe the General is just as accurate , but it reads how many percent moisture isn't in the concrete.

 

[highup]

Maybe the General was simply defective. Worth returning since you know the other two seem accurate.

 

[Ernesto]

Reviews on the General instrument are all over the place. One 5 star review - real estate lady said she loves using it to tell clients whether or not the house had ever been flooded. LOL
I would assume the Ryobi is of the same quality. Mostly paper weights or use for firewood. https://www.homedepot.com/p/General...sture-Meter-with-LCD-Display-MMD5NP/100651804
I use the Tramex CME all the time but just to check for hot spots. It is not considered by many manufacturers or the industry at large as a definitive measurement for quantitative amounts of moisture in the slab and is only qualitative. It only reads maybe an inch into the slab. So 90% of the moisture in a slab is hiding at or below the 40% depth of the slab and will move to the top when covered with any coatings, adhesives or flooring like vinyl etc.
Plus most all manufacturers do not allow you to put moisture sensitive flooring on a slab that has a sump pump.

Your best bet is to install porcelain tile.

 

[Nick]

I have the Ryobi for checking hot spots E .. I get the same reading on it as i do with the tramax .. Never used it on concrete though ..

 

[Ernesto]

I have the Ryobi for checking hot spots E .. I get the same reading on it as i do with the tramex .. Never used it on concrete though ..

Is that one and the General one even made for concrete?

 

[wcheaib]

Highup -

The scope of the work for the self leveler is below. When you ask, does it have a sealer, I believe it does. They self-leveled the entire basement excluding the 2 bathrooms and laundry room. The reading on the raw concrete was twice that of the self leveled area literally within inches of each other (at the doorway). I don't care about the bathrooms and laundry room as that will have porcelain tiles.


We hereby submit specifications and estimate(s) for approximately;
Supply and install the following

Scope of Work
Apply floor primer
Pour Portland base over pour up to 1/4" to 5/8" depth
Approx. 2,107 sf basement
Price: $6,300.00 + HST


Terms
30 Days for date of invoice. Hold back of our work 45 days from our substantial completion.

Mobilization Schedule
1 continuous mobilization.

Client Responsibilities
Dedicated water supply date of installation
Maintain 7 degrees Celsius
Bulk heads at all openings.
Prefill of all holes by others
Floor to be clean and free from construction materials
110 volt electrical power
Staging area for pump truck

 

[wcheaib]

Ernesto - in response to "Plus most all manufacturers do not allow you to put moisture sensitive flooring on a slab that has a sump pump", I've asked Sheoga if their warranty becomes void if the slab has sump pumps and they said no.

 

[Nick]

Is that one and the General one even made for concrete?

I think so .. Like i said i just use it for hot spots on wood substrates ..

 

[wcheaib]

Here's the response from Tech Support from General Tools, the manufacturer of the General Moisture Meter.

The MMD7NP is not calibrated for concrete. The Masonry mode on this model is only for traditional masonry such as brick, mortar, plaster, and tile. Due to the make up of concrete, the MMD7NP will always register false high moisture on that material.

So my hardwood installer was using the wrong meter to measure moisture (wtf).