Rotted subfloor, notched joist, & other problems that need repair

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highup

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Last, first. You can trim an inch or three off the first row so both sides are closer to even. I usually conform the first row to the wall so 99% of the time, you need to cut the first row anyway.
If it makes it easier, there are flat metal trims that are cheaper and easier to install. Depends on how snazy you want it to look. Metal edges aren't always sexy, but they provide a finished edge.
 

zannej

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I'm just going to go with some matching transition pieces. I'm trying to do the layout in sketchup but I'm not happy with the results thus far. I'm overthinking it trying to do the stagger pattern. Any tips/suggestions?

I know the room isn't square, but it's pretty much 94.5" x 122.25". If I subtract 1/8 from each edge then it's 94.25" x 122" or thereabouts. With the boards being 7"x48" I get about 3 boards long by 13.5 wide. I have about 40 boards to work with (although, I could order another box if push comes to shove). I do know that I want to have the full length board next to the exterior door. I wonder if it would be ok to have a full length plank in the opposite corner & then have a mirrored stagger of sorts (I hope that makes sense). Can I leave larger than 1/8" gap around the perimeter if I am using base molding to cover the gaps for the long ends?

The row closest to the exterior door only being about half size doesn't look bad in sketchup & because there will be threshold, there's a piece of wall butting in (for electrical-- which just made a virtual lightbulb in my head go off about where to put the electrical outlet for the washing machine), & most of that edge will be behind the washer & dryer & a lint bin-- That edge pretty much will not be visible. If I cut the first row in half then the end row would be about full. Although, I read something that said to add the width of the end plank to the full plank & divide by 2. So (7+3.5)/2= 5.25 or thereabouts.

I'm trying to see if there is some free online program that will let me plugin the size of the room (less expansion gap) & the size of the boards & have it do the layout.
 
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highup

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You can start with a full board if you want. Put the full plank where you think it's most noticeable. Not that big a deal. You just don't want a 1/2 inch piece on the opposite wall.
The manufacturer tells you not to leave a plank smaller than "X" That said, rules sometimes have to be broken.
 

zannej

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I saw someone suggesting that when you finish the first row, start the next row with the scrap left over from the previous row, but there are inconsistent opinions about the stagger from one row to another in the middle. Some say no less than 6" some say no less than 12". Some say to do 1/3 board then 1/2 or something. I'm playing around with it in Sketchup more but it wasn't making them line up properly when I was trying to place a virtual board (it won't snap to the right spot). I need to get a newer version of it.
 

highup

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You can do that, and it's more efficient, but in large rooms it creates a stair step look....... every 3 or 4th row might end up in the same location. I like random, but it can take more material.
That said, when you always adjust a 3rd or 4th row duplicate with a new randomly cut plank. Just offset that row 4 or 5 inches and continue as before. In a room your size and with appliances and all, the stair step might be the best route waste wise and the best way to go.
 

zannej

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You can do that, and it's more efficient, but in large rooms it creates a stair step look....... every 3 or 4th row might end up in the same location. I like random, but it can take more material.
That said, when you always adjust a 3rd or 4th row duplicate with a new randomly cut plank. Just offset that row 4 or 5 inches and continue as before. In a room your size and with appliances and all, the stair step might be the best route waste wise and the best way to go.
Thanks! I think minimum recommended offset was something like 6" to make sure there's a good grip.
Also, I read some people did 1/4" gap around the edges so that would be a whole 1/2" inch off the full width. I do plan to trim off the tongue on the starting row where it will be facing the wall.
I agree that it's a small enough room & with the appliances the pattern won't matter too much. I will also have anti-fatigue mats in front of the machines & folding area (or maybe a single mat that can be moved).
I just realized that I'll have to make sure the cut off ends have the tongue/groove to connect to other pieces so it limits what I was thinking of doing bc I forgot about that. Derp.
Maybe I can stagger in such a way that I skip rows. Do one row then stagger by about 16" then use the cutoff piece from row 1 at the end of row 3, then use cutoff from row 2 for row 4 and so forth. I'll play around with that in sketchup & see how it looks and do modifications to have 1/4" gap instead of 1/8" gap.

Question about doorways: Since my first row would start at a doorway, would I just start 1/4" from the wall (ignoring the door trim) & treat it like the empty space from the open door is a solid object, or would I butt into the doorway a bit? Or should I just use transitions for that?
 

highup

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Thanks! I think minimum recommended offset was something like 6" to make sure there's a good grip.
Also, I read some people did 1/4" gap around the edges so that would be a whole 1/2" inch off the full width. I do plan to trim off the tongue on the starting row where it will be facing the wall.
I agree that it's a small enough room & with the appliances the pattern won't matter too much. I will also have anti-fatigue mats in front of the machines & folding area (or maybe a single mat that can be moved).
I just realized that I'll have to make sure the cut off ends have the tongue/groove to connect to other pieces so it limits what I was thinking of doing bc I forgot about that. Derp.
Maybe I can stagger in such a way that I skip rows. Do one row then stagger by about 16" then use the cutoff piece from row 1 at the end of row 3, then use cutoff from row 2 for row 4 and so forth. I'll play around with that in sketchup & see how it looks and do modifications to have 1/4" gap instead of 1/8" gap.

Question about doorways: Since my first row would start at a doorway, would I just start 1/4" from the wall (ignoring the door trim) & treat it like the empty space from the open door is a solid object, or would I butt into the doorway a bit? Or should I just use transitions for that?
I forgot to mention that. For a room that size you could get away with 1/8".
 

zannej

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I thought I had replied to this for some reason but it's not showing it. Weird. 1/8" would be easier to manage I think. I need to see if I have any 1/8" thick scraps anywhere, but I could use shims. I'm still trying to play around with the layout in Sketchup but am still not happy. I need to figure out the best stagger pattern that leaves at least 8" on the ends and has at least 10" stagger in between the middle board ends. I'm thinking maybe I just need to go with specific size cuts that I know will work & then do the reverse & lay them out like that. At least I figured out a new "trick" for Sketchup. After selecting a tool and clicking the starting point, if I hit one of the arrow keys, it then locks to that axis. I can then manually input the value I want for distance, hit enter, and it draws it for me. I may actually re-start my original room drawing bc it's off-kilter somewhat so stuff doesn't line up. Granted, that is more realistic bc stuff doesn't line up in the actual room.

I was checking the prices of stuff for the subfloor & it's gone up by at least $10 since I last looked. I'm thinking I might want to buy the sheets & store them in the workshop before it goes up even more. I wonder if any of the other stores carry the same stuff for slightly cheaper. Seems they got rid of some of their inventory so there are fewer options. I'm looking at the 23/32 southern pine tongue & groove stuff. If I do two layers I'll probably need about 8 boards at $30 a pop. However, there's a 1-1/8" cat PSI-9 tongue & groove for $49. It would end up being cheaper, for the latter & doing one layer. Then I wouldn't have to worry as much about staggering the seams. I wish I could find good stuff for cheaper.

Which do you think would be better for stability/durability?
 

highup

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1 1/8 would be a lot heavier as far as handling it.......... not that 3/4 is light.
Would 3/4 inch non T&G be any cheaper?
Maybe non T&G for the subfloor and 5/8 for the underlayment. There's not really any reason for T&G in a two layer floor.
 

zannej

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Good point on the weight. I know they will be heavy as hell-- but I'll have help. Hopefully I'll have help from a guy who owes Mom money & who is as strong as an ox. Dude lifted a 200+lb motor by himself.
Non tongue-and-Groove may be cheaper, but I wonder if it's worth it to have them lock securely together & use just one layer to not have to worry about staggering a 2nd layer. It's heavier at the onset, but it requires fewer boards & less carrying. I can pull my truck up near the back door to make it easier to unload.

Right now my brain is starting to shut down on me though.
 

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I'm starting to wonder if I can just cut out certain parts of the floor that are damaged & replace them with whatever thickness is needed. Or use leveling mix if it comes down to it. If the floor isn't destroyed enough to warrant replacing large chunks I am still thinking of prying up at least some parts to make it easier to get under the house to work on the plumbing & then screwing it back down-- but I'm pretty sure the floor under the shower is wrecked. While I have access, I will try to rough-in the plumbing for the bathroom to make it easier when it's time to work on it. I know the floor under the washing machine is destroyed though so it will have to be cut out-- but I plan to work on the new laundry room first.

The door threshold & sill have gotten worse. I think the sill was stepped down too much from the threshold & there's no flashing. I need to clear up my brother's laundry that is all over the floor & clear up other junk in the way to try to get a better look at things. The back door desperately needs to be replaced asap but I'm going to need help with it. The guy who owes Mom money has basically ghosted us. Claimed he was moving out-of-state & that he'd wire $ to us but then I saw him in the local Walmart so it looks like he was lying to me. I'd asked him to come do some yardwork in exchange for paying off some of the debt (a certain amount per hour) but he never showed up when he was supposed to.

Looking at the photos it looks like there is at least an inch or more drop from the bottom of the threshold to the sill (looks like 2 pieces of plywood stacked on each other but they are swollen & cracked). I think I can cut that part out. I really need to re-do the header. I got an awning to put up as well. Still trying to figure out the right pattern for the vinyl plank. I was planning to just use a whole board on the interior starting corner but then I realized it would make the ending strip absolutely tiny so ripping the first row down an inch or two might be a better plan.

My best friend had intended to come help already but he injured his back at work & is still waiting to get an MRI to see if he ruptured any disks-- but he's still offered to come help when he can. He just put new LED headlight bulbs in my truck and fixed up my brother's truck. I wish my brother wasn't such a colossal whiner when I ask him to help with stuff. He brags about how strong he is but my friend with the messed up back can lift more than him w/o complaint. Sorry, venting. LOL. If I didn't have a messed up back and pathetically weak arms I'd be able to do more. Plus, I need to stop procrastinating.

I know I'm necro-ing the thread but it's been on my mind recently bc it's getting colder & the back door is letting in a lot of cold air since the cat door fell out of it & chunks of the wood broke off.
 

zannej

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This is a crappy sketch of the doorway & sill from two different angles. On the top there's a metal threshold, underneath that are two layers of plywood (which are cracked & splitting apart horizontally & vertically). The door sill is below the 2 layers out in front (not sure what it's sitting on). Vinyl siding covers whatever is under the sill. From eyeballing the plywood my guess is that it's at least 1-1/2" thick- possibly 2".

  1. Is it normal for the exterior sill to be that much lower than the threshold? (I'm pretty sure it's NOT normal for the plywood under the threshold to be exposed like that)
  2. When I do repairs, should I bring the sill up higher so the back is level with the plywood (or whatever substrate I use under the threshold) and slope it downward toward the outside?
  3. When I install the flooring, should the new flooring run under the threshold or should I cut it to go around the threshold? (or should I have some sort of filler under the threshold?)
  4. If I used a Suresill pan, how far back should it go & how far should it protrude out (if at all)?
  5. Can I overlap flashing on the top of the plywood under the threshold (so long as it is hidden)?

I think I know the answers but I'm second-guessing myself & want to be sure.
doorillsketch1.png
 

highup

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Not sure about your threshold situation, but flooring is often fit up to the threshold. If the threshold is screwed in place, it can be removed and installed on top of the flooring.
 

zannej

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Not sure about your threshold situation, but flooring is often fit up to the threshold. If the threshold is screwed in place, it can be removed and installed on top of the flooring.
That's what I thought. Thanks! I'm thinking so long as the door doesn't scrape the floor when it swings, the flooring can be done up to the threshold (and possibly just under it by 1/4" or so).
 

zannej

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Just for notes: This is the door I got. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Masonite-Decorative-Glass-Right-Hand-Inswing-Primed-Steel-Prehung-Entry-Door-With-Insulating-Core-Common-36-in-x-80-in-Actual-37-5-in-x-81-625-in/999918544 Rough opening height is about 82.125" so I'll probably need to move the existing 2x4s up to about 83". I'm going to have fun cutting out the expanding foam I sprayed on the sides. LOL.
Still waiting on being able to work on the door. If my friend loses his job over this DMV fiasco he might have more free time.
 

zannej

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The weather has been cold and rainy and I've been working on cleaning up and organizing inside the house. I was looking at the photos I took of what passes for a header for my door (it's a 2x4 that isn't level). Because of some electrical in the way, it will be easier for me to put the header at the top near the ceiling and keep a 2x4 down lower for the door frame to attach to. I'm wondering if I can just replace the king stud that is too short with a taller one, keep the existing 2x4, and trim the cripples in the middle and add vertical 2x4s on top of the horizontal 2x4 directly over the king studs or if I should replace both king studs and cut them long enough to fit under the new header (which will be two 2x6s sandwiched together) and cut a dado in them to put the horizontal 2x4. If I do the former, I will sister them up to the studs that go all the way to the ceiling-- although one will need some shims on the right side.

I'm also thinking about what the manufacturer said about the flooring I got needing to "float" and not being held down by heavy objects. I'm wondering if it would be worth it to not install the vinyl plank in that area-- putting transition strips instead, and having a moisture barrier and laundry pan that goes underneath both washer and dryer in that spot. It would give me some extra boards to work with in case of mistakes or damage, and I wouldn't have to worry about the vibrations from the machines. There may be enough room to fit half a plank of the flooring behind the washer & dryer to help keep the laundry pan in place and to give the side pieces something to hold on to-- I hope that makes sense. I'll mess with it in sketchup later to see how that works out.
This is a rough sketch:floorlaundrypan1.jpg

Although, I'm wondering if it would just be easier to lay the floor out fully and then put the pan on top and use anti-vibration pads under the pedestals. My machines tend to make a lot of noise but I don't notice a lot of shaking when they run.
 

zannej

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After seeing how easy it was to do the vinyl plank in my friend's kitchen and how easy it is to clean the floor, I'm thinking of getting this for the guest bathroom: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Home-Decorators-Collection-Iceland-Spar-12-in-x-23-82-in-Luxury-Vinyl-Plank-Flooring-19-8-sq-ft-case-480146/306041978

I'm not fond of wood patterns for bathroom floors and I wanted something light. It's the same brand as the stuff my friend got. Not a great wear layer, but probably better than a lot of the sheet vinyl & it's cheaper than the sheet vinyl in the size I need.
 
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