Seam tape and iron for newer backings

[msinstallations]

So what is everyone doing for seaming the newer backings. I have used Roberts 315 for years, but recently I have had problems with the tape holding to the backings. I have ordered a case of XK-50 and then had to order the Orcon 14300 iron.

Anyone else finding the tapes are not holding as well anymore?

 

[Floorist]

I see that's the combination iron. Part flat and part grooved. Does it work that much better? I have used an Orcon Kool Top grooved for several years. I still have a couple Roberts. The Orcon is much better.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Try using the Koolglide. Or the Orcon Su-90 or Seamasters One tape. They are a low melt tape using the iron on 2. Urethane adhesive. Sticks to most anything.

Daris

 

[highup]

So what is everyone doing for seaming the newer backings. I have used Roberts 315 for years, but recently I have had problems with the tape holding to the backings. I have ordered a case of XK-50 and then had to order the Orcon 14300 iron.

Anyone else finding the tapes are not holding as well anymore?

I see that's the combination iron. Part flat and part grooved. Does it work that much better? I have used an Orcon Kool Top grooved for several years. I still have a couple Roberts. The Orcon is much better.

I live and breathe XK50. Love it.
Never a problem unless it a very thin profile carpet or with a thin dense backing like Mohawk or Karastan or that Lees 'crap' backing with the blue stripes. I say crap, because they use sand and Elmer's glue rather than latex to adhere their backings. Hate that stuff. It delaminates as you measure and cut it.


Back on track, what temps do you run with that iron, and do you pre-stretch and use a seam board under the carpet?

 

[msinstallations]

Boy you guys got a lot of questions.

I use the 3" Orcon Kool Top at the moment, I see no reason to have grooves all down the iron, once the glue liquifies only a small amount of grooves are needed. I do like the center groove having more glue directed there. I don't like the fin they have on top, I have gone as far as cutting it back some.

I have a Koolglide, I use it for doorways and repairs, it is an older one so the heat setting isn't like it should be so I don't use it on long seams. Seam tape too spendy anyway for that application as far as I am concerned. I don't won't to jump to to many different tapes so I am going to try the XK-50 for now.

I normally run the iron about 3, I use a seam board under and normally don't prestretch.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Boy you guys got a lot of questions.

I use the 3" Orcon Kool Top at the moment, I see no reason to have grooves all down the iron, once the glue liquifies only a small amount of grooves are needed. I do like the center groove having more glue directed there. I don't like the fin they have on top, I have gone as far as cutting it back some.

I have a Koolglide, I use it for doorways and repairs, it is an older one so the heat setting isn't like it should be so I don't use it on long seams. Seam tape too spendy anyway for that application as far as I am concerned. I don't won't to jump to to many different tapes so I am going to try the XK-50 for now.

I normally run the iron about 3, I use a seam board under and normally don't prestretch.

Send in your Koolglide and get it updated. All it is going to cost you is the postage there.
There are no heat setting, if it is a Pro the setting just determines how many seconds the tool is activated.

Daris

 

[highup]

Boy you guys got a lot of questions.

I use the 3" Orcon Kool Top at the moment, I see no reason to have grooves all down the iron, once the glue liquifies only a small amount of grooves are needed. I do like the center groove having more glue directed there. I don't like the fin they have on top, I have gone as far as cutting it back some.

I have a Koolglide, I use it for doorways and repairs, it is an older one so the heat setting isn't like it should be so I don't use it on long seams. Seam tape too spendy anyway for that application as far as I am concerned. I don't won't to jump to to many different tapes so I am going to try the XK-50 for now.

I normally run the iron about 3, I use a seam board under and normally don't prestretch.

Might want to try 3.25 setting and see if that helps. boards under the seam instead of padding seem to suck a little more heat from the iron compared to the insulation factor of seaming over pad............. my opinion only.
Nice to see someone using a seam board. Try pre-stretching using just a kicker, and do a couple of feet on each side of the seam.
I'll try and dig up an old pre-stretch seam photo.

 

[msinstallations]

I don't have a lot of faith in the numeric settings on the irons, I have always considered them relative readings. I would guess they vary from iron to iron even in the same brand.
I try to keep a happy medium between burning the the glue and just melting it to secure a bond. I have been meaning to use a real thermometer to get a true reading but I keep forgetting to do it. All I know is a want a seam tape I can use on most backings and Roberts 50-315 no longer hits the mark.

 

[Floorist]

I don't have a lot of faith in the numeric settings on the irons, I have always considered them relative readings. I would guess they vary from iron to iron even in the same brand.
I try to keep a happy medium between burning the the glue and just melting it to secure a bond. I have been meaning to use a real thermometer to get a true reading but I keep forgetting to do it. All I know is a want a seam tape I can use on most backings and Roberts 50-315 no longer hits the mark.

I agree. I have 2 Roberts that are identical that worked best on different settings. And the Kool Glide tape is not only too expensive to use all the time (it's great on repairs) but most of the local supply outlets don't carry it. By the time you add shipping on top of the price, it is really expensive.

 

[highup]

I don't have a lot of faith in the numeric settings on the irons, I have always considered them relative readings. I would guess they vary from iron to iron even in the same brand.
I try to keep a happy medium between burning the the glue and just melting it to secure a bond. I have been meaning to use a real thermometer to get a true reading but I keep forgetting to do it. All I know is a want a seam tape I can use on most backings and Roberts 50-315 no longer hits the mark.

I agree. I have 2 Roberts that are identical that worked best on different settings. And the Kool Glide tape is not only too expensive to use all the time (it's great on repairs) but most of the local supply outlets don't carry it. By the time you add shipping on top of the price, it is really expensive.

I agree about the settings. I have an infrared thermometer and checked mine once......... didn't write down the temps tho. I will do that for kicks and giggles.
Here is a prestretched seam after it has cooled and been released from the tackstrip. it shows what seam tape does when it's been changed from it's "seamed condition" This doesn't tell you what it does when a carpet is seamed, then stretched, but have you noticed a seam almost always looks best after it's been seamed together? If it does show, it usually shows after it has been stretched.
So why not seam it in a stretched, or semi-stretched condition so the tape doesn't need to be stretch?

I did this seam as a demo to show this effect. Once it's been restretched, it's flat once more. This seam was stretched almost, but not quite as tight as when I actually stretched in the room. Lots of tension in that tape area.
Orcon X-K50 3" tape.

 

[msinstallations]

I can certainly appreciate the merits of prestretching seams, but my problem is that the tape I currently use is not holding the newer backings. I was just checking with you all as to what you use.

 

[highup]

I can certainly appreciate the merits of prestretching seams, but my problem is that the tape I currently use is not holding the newer backings. I was just checking with you all as to what you use.

I have never used one, but I am thinking possibly a urethane tape might hold better. I think orcon makes one. They used to.

Try higher heat settings on a scrap with XK-50 and find out where 'too hot' is located on the seamer control, then set the iron control between that and where you now keep it.

 

[msinstallations]

By the time I run into the backing in question I will have the new XK-50 and iron. I will have to keep track of what type carpet it is and do some posting on it, maybe others will have some feedback also at that time. It's tough to relate to the situation without more info.

 

[Floorist]

By the time I run into the backing in question I will have the new XK-50 and iron. I will have to keep track of what type carpet it is and do some posting on it, maybe others will have some feedback also at that time. It's tough to relate to the situation without more info.

I certainly would be interested. Around here, I seldom see any new backings.

 

[DarisMulkin]

I have never used one, but I am thinking possibly a urethane tape might hold better. I think orcon makes one. They used to.

Try higher heat settings on a scrap with XK-50 and find out where 'too hot' is located on the seamer control, then set the iron control between that and where you now keep it.

The urethane tapes look like they don't have a lot of glue on it so don't let that throw you. It makes a chemical bond instead of a mechanical bond. Also gives less profiling. Also the temp is a low melt so turn the iron down.
I used to use the Xk-50 but thought it was to much glue for the job. Always had a profile of the tape. Really big profile with the 6" tape. Have quit using the 6 " iron altogether now.

Daris

 

[Floorist]

The urethane tapes look like they don'thave a lot of glue on it so don't let that throw you. It makes a chemical bond instead of a mechanical bond. Also gives less profiling. Also the temp is a low melt so turn the iron down.
I used to use the Xk-50 but thought it was to much glue for the job. Always had a profile of the tape. Really big profile with the 6" tape. Have quit using the 6 " iron altogether now.

Daris

Never did like a 6" iron.

 

[highup]

By the time I run into the backing in question I will have the new XK-50 and iron. I will have to keep track of what type carpet it is and do some posting on it, maybe others will have some feedback also at that time. It's tough to relate to the situation without more info.

Here's one I don't like. Used on both on Mohawk and Karastan.
I call it the tarp back.

 

[McBrides]

It is very rare that we will do a seam with stretched product, but do the seams first. We are using a Roberts 3" iron, and prefer to use Capital Gold tape (available from Lowe's for under $12) which we have to buy outside the shop.

The product we worked with on Thursday & Friday was a Shaw berber, with a pattern repeat every 4 rows. Every time we cut a row, a couple of inches of it would fall off. Dave was freaking. Halfway through the job, I gently moved Dave aside and started cutting seams myself. There weren't more than 2 doorway seams that behaved with the first cut. Good thing it wasn't a tight measure. By the end of the day we were scrapping...

 

[highup]

The urethane tapes look like they don't have a lot of glue on it so don't let that throw you. It makes a chemical bond instead of a mechanical bond. Also gives less profiling. Also the temp is a low melt so turn the iron down.
I used to use the Xk-50 but thought it was to much glue for the job. Always had a profile of the tape. Really big profile with the 6" tape. Have quit using the 6 " iron altogether now.

Daris

I hate the 6" also.
The backing that I just showed would probably be ideal with urethane tape.

 

[DarisMulkin]

I hate the 6" also.
The backing that I just showed would probably be ideal with urethane tape.

It would work good. Karastan has the brown line, Mohawk a blue line and Horizon no line. All the same product with 3 different names. I know when it first came out they had a delamination problem. Their driver said they had a warehouse full of delaminated carpet.
I haven't had any problem with tape sticking to it though but you definitely want to use a low profile tape on it as there is no where for the thermo to go.

Daris