Skim coat over residual adhesive?

[annem]

We are installing a new vinyl sheet floor in our kitchen. Currently we have very loose (corners coming up) self-stick vinyl tiles over an older well-adhered vinyl sheet. We are budget-conscious as we only plan to be in the house a few more years.

One contractor recommended removing the loose tiles and skim-coating with Ardex before installing the new vinyl. Another contractor insisted that this skim coat would come up over time as it would not adhere well to the residual adhesive (or that the adhesive would separate from the older vinyl). Instead he recommends removing the older vinyl sheet, although this would increase the project cost by ~50%. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Both were also somewhat willing to remove the self-stick tiles and put plywood over the old vinyl with adhesive, although this may interfere with our swinging door because it would raise the floor level up (and perhaps the residual adhesive would leave sticky sounding spots).

Please advise! Thanks!

 

[FloorMaven]

Have you considered a floating resilient floor?

 

[annem]

Both contractors advised against.

 

[FloorMaven]

Any specific reason?

 

[highup]

If you can remove all the tiles, then skimcoat, you might be fine. The new flooring will be a single piece?

Both were also somewhat willing to remove the self-stick tiles and put plywood over the old vinyl with adhesive, although this may interfere with our swinging door because it would raise the floor level up (and perhaps the residual adhesive would leave sticky sounding spots).

You are correct about the possibility of sticky sounding spots........ you would probably want to do a skim coat over the adhesive residue, and then install the plywood.

You mentioned recommendations by contractors.............. are you, or are the contractors actually going to do the installation?

 

[annem]

Any specific reason?

not sure. in any case I think the question of what to put below the new floor remains as it isn't currently level and we can't go over the self stick tiles

 

[annem]

If you can remove all the tiles, then skimcoat, you might be fine. The new flooring will be a single piece?



You are correct about the possibility of sticky sounding spots........ you would probably want to do a skim coat over the adhesive residue, and then install the plywood.



You mentioned recommendations by contractors.............. are you, or are the contractors actually going to do the installation?

Yes, the flooring contractors will install the vinyl sheet flooring.

It sounds like you think it's ok to skim coat over adhesive that's left on top of a vinyl sheet, without removing the adhesive first?

 

[mule65]

Yes, the flooring contractors will install the vinyl sheet flooring.

It sounds like you think it's ok to skim coat over adhesive that's left on top of a vinyl sheet, without removing the adhesive first?

If they're using ardex over the glue you should be fine as long as the vinyl you're leaving down is stuck to the floor well .

 

[Ernesto]

Skim coating is for over residual adhesives only. Not thick layers of adhesive.

http://floorexpert.com/Armstrong/fp...0fb943d10664e3a78525799f006a7051?OpenDocument

 

[FloorMaven]

Skim coating is for over residual adhesives only. Not thick layers of adhesive.

http://floorexpert.com/Armstrong/fpoxpert.nsf/e65e17af3c811a5485256eba00710746/0fb943d10664e3a78525799f006a7051?OpenDocument

Agreed...Ardex ff is good for embossing but I'd be concerned if you're trying to create an underlayment to bond to. That's why I asked if you would be floating it.

 

[Floorist]

What kind of vinyl floor are you installing. IVC type vinyls don't need as perfect an install surface as some other products, especially if you loose-lay it.

 

[highup]

Yes, the flooring contractors will install the vinyl sheet flooring.

It sounds like you think it's ok to skim coat over adhesive that's left on top of a vinyl sheet, without removing the adhesive first?

The reason I asked is because those contractors, seeing the job in person, may see some small details we cannot see from your description. (a very good description, I will add)
Anyhow, those contractors will have to stand behind their work, so they don't want to do it 1/2 way and risk get a complaint and possibly end up eating the job.

Like Rusty said, if it's an IVC type vinyl, they are more tolerant of issues than vinyl floors with a paper backing.

By "IVC type" vinyl, they are some times referred to as glass back vinyl, because there is fiberglass within in the vinyl that keeps it from shrinking and curling at the edges. Many come in widths wider than 12 feet to reduce seams.

 

[FloorMaven]

Like Rusty said, if it's an IVC type vinyl, they are more tolerant of issues than vinyl floors with a paper backing.

By "IVC type" vinyl, they are some times referred to as glass back vinyl, because there is fiberglass within in the vinyl that keeps it from shrinking and curling at the edges. Many come in widths wider than 12 feet to reduce seams.

I don't think it's the type of vinyl that is more tolerant but instead the type of installation that is more forgiving of sub-floor imperfections.

I've never heard that fiberglass backings help prevent vinyl shrinking. Might you have some literature?

The reason for wider than 12' products is the nature of the measuring system in European manufacturing countries. The products are made 4 meters wide for simple square meter calculation. IVC, a European company makes 4 meter wide glassbak in the US while the US company, Armstrong makes 12' wide glassbak.

 

[Floorist]

The reason for wider than 12' products is the nature of the measuring system in European manufacturing countries. The products are made 4 meters wide for simple square meter calculation. IVC, a European company makes 4 meter wide glassbak in the US while the US company, Armstrong makes 12' wide glassbak.

Just like the old kitchen prints (carpet) in the 80's, they were 4 meters or approx 13' 2" wide. And they were mostly made in Europe.

 

[highup]

I don't think it's the type of vinyl that is more tolerant but instead the type of installation that is more forgiving of sub-floor imperfections.

I've never heard that fiberglass backings help prevent vinyl shrinking. Might you have some literature?

The reason for wider than 12' products is the nature of the measuring system in European manufacturing countries. The products are made 4 meters wide for simple square meter calculation. IVC, a European company makes 4 meter wide glassbak in the US while the US company, Armstrong makes 12' wide glassbak.

If they shrunk like Manningtons Fine Fields, they would shrink well over 1/2 inch in a 13' width.
(if they actually made it that wide)

If glass backed shrank, they would curl like felt backs do. Never seen that. I did a repair in a dentists office. Material had been down 5 years before the wear layer started coming lose from the backing part of the material.
I was able to remove a 10 foot wide section that needed replacing. I rolled it up and took it down to the warehouse to make the match.
Not only did the colors match, but the pattern matched right down to the pixel............... I mean dead on.

Have you seen a glass back shrink, excluding a material like Sobella? I don't know about that one since it's a totally different material.

OK, back to the shrinkage. If for loose lay they say leave it 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap at the wall, then cover the gap with molding................ shrinkage would become a huge issue
................. it hasn't, has it? Climate can do different things in different areas and you live in a hot dry one. My location has is mid to high humidity and no temperature extremes. That said, you may have had different experiences with these products.

I find it's a very stable material. (a selling point) That said, I am sure that some products may behave differently............ but nothing remotely close to paper backed materials.
With that said, there will be considerably less stress on the prepared substrate in this particular case by an IVC type material .............it pretty much just lays there and doesn't shrink up. Considerably better with adhesive.