SQUEAKY FLOOR

[mpoland33]

HEllo! I am in the planning and tool gathering stage of changing my carpets over to Pergo Outlast flooring.

I'm writing for a few reasons.

1. IF anyone has tips for this project, please let me know. I'm all ears. THis will be my first flooring job.


2. My current floor is extremely squeeky. My basement is finished so I'm able to peek down there to see how the flooring was prepared. I can see squished out glue from under the subfloor. I also see they used nails. They have small sections where it appears they missed the basement joists when they nailed into the subfloor. I can also see the 2x10 joists are overlapped what appears to be a foot or two in the middle. These are the non-squeeky spots in the floor (where the joists overlap underneath. The overlap is also over top of the steel supports in the basement.

Luckily, I have not finished the basement YET (havent gotten to this part in THAT project) so I can adjust things in the basement. What is the best way to secure these floors better to remove this squeek? I was thinking of adding some 2x8's along the joists in order to secure some of the areas and I figure I'll use screws in the subfloor when I re-do the floors. It appears they used some sort of thin plywood underlayment (or someething else) on top of the subfloor).

Also, while I'm hearing asking questions, what type of leveling flooring or wood or anything would you put on top of the current subfloor? Would you take of the old underlayment plywood?

 

[highup]

There are a few things that might help. How old is the house.
You mentioned 2x10 joists. Are you referring to actual 2X lumber (and I think you are), or are these engineered joists in that dimension?
Also do you know the thickness of the material on top of the floor joists and the thickness of the material you said was thin that's called the underlayment. Back in the good old days both products would be plywood with the lower one nailed to the joists being about 3/4 of an inch and a half inch layer on top of that sometimes particle board sometimes plywood.
Newer construction has almost always been OSB and it can be anywhere from 3/4 of an inch to 1 and 1/4 in thick. When vinyl floors are installed on top of the single layer floors a second layer is added and that's usually anywhere from 1/2 to 1/4 inch thick.
If you have relatively easy access below to see the floor joists and the nails that missed, I suppose you could drill a hole right next to the joist where the nails missed it, then go back above and knowing which side the nail missed on, you could just add more screws.

 

[highup]

You mentioned for question removing the quarter inch or thin underlayment and replacing with something different. I'm guessing you maybe thinking of a thicker underlayment or a more stable underlayment than the thin stuff?

 

[mpoland33]

Thanks for your response. The house was built in 2002 and had a foreclosure flood in 2008 where I was told they gutted the entire main floor and replaced everything- however I can't be sure they replaced the subfloor. I know they re-tiled the kitchen and then secure that good- no squeeks or bounce at all) The 2x10 I was refering to is the actual lumber size of the joists that I'm able to see from the basement (looking up).
I don't know the thickness of the material yet (havent pulled the carpet yet). On the underlayment side of things, yes, I was thinking if I removed the thin underlayment piece of wood, I would put in maybe a 3/8 or 1/2" piece of one side sanded plywood or soemthing like that. I'm going to have my wife help to see if I can find where there is a bounce and maybe get some screws in there. Besides 1. putting some long 2x8's down the basement to tie into the old ones and enhance the structure, 2. adding screws to the subfloor, 3. putting a heavier underlayment down, and 4. if I see a bounce in the floors i might be able to sneak some glue under the subfloor from the basement- I'm not sure of any other tricks. My biggest fear is I'm going to spend all this time putting down new floors and the creaks and squeeks are going to be so bad that we hate it.

 

[DarisMulkin]

If you got floor registers just pull one of them to see how thick the floor is. Another thing on squeeks is sometimes the squeek is actually coming from the wall plate as there is movement when stepping on floor and it is sliding on a nail that holds the plate in place. Like in a car noises travel.

 

[mpoland33]

If you got floor registers just pull one of them to see how thick the floor is. Another thing on squeeks is sometimes the squeek is actually coming from the wall plate as there is movement when stepping on floor and it is sliding on a nail that holds the plate in place. Like in a car noises travel.

THanks! How would I fix that if it were that?

 

[highup]

One way is you could do a lot of measuring to find out where a wall is at upstairs, and then locate that from the underside in the basement. Once you locate the position of the wall, drive a 2 inch screw upwards into the 2x4 plate.
And easier method would be get a 12-in long 1/8-in drill bit. Drill right next to the sheetrock and when you have the drill through the floor, let it stick down about 4 in or so through the floor. Now go downstairs and look for it sticking down. Now you know where the edge of the wall is. Measuring from an outside wall to the upstairs wall that may be squeaking, will be approximately the same upstairs as downstairs so a measuring tape is your best friend if you do it this way.
You could also do it from the upstairs side. You need to remove the baseboard first. Then put a screw through the sheetrock at a 45° angle.
Do it this way. With the baseboard removed, put a mark on the wall 2 in up from the floor. So you might help to use a drill first and then put the screw in.
Drive the drill bit in to the sheetrock at that 2-in mark and at a 45° angle. You will drill down through the sheetrock and through the 2x4 plate. Now drive a 3-in deck screw into the hole you just drilled. If you pre-drill the screw hole, you might need a longer drill bit.
Doing this will pull the 2x4 plate to the wall or stop it from moving up and down. If that's the problem you will notice improvement or a change driving just one or two screws.

 

[highup]

Depending on how your house is built or how the wiring is done, you might want to stay 6 inches to the right or left side of a walls electrical outlet. most likely that wouldn't be a problem no matter where you put the screw but what the heck.

 

[mpoland33]

THanks so much for the tips. I'm assuming the 12" bit from above would be once i remove the carpet or do you do that through the carpet? I guess it doesnt matter much since I'm removing carpet anyway

 

[DarisMulkin]

I agree with HI on drilling a small hole next to the wall only difference is I set a flashlight over the hole the in the basement go to the light, easier than looking for a screw.

 

[mpoland33]

THanks!

 

[highup]

While installing carpet I was asked to remove a squeak. I probably put 20 screws on the floor and it did nothing might have even made it worse. Then I discovered the sound was coming closer to the wall than I thought so I measured from the outside wall to the wall I was at, then went down the Halls over to the stairs down the stairs and back the opposite direction to the far side of the house and measured from the outside wall over. I measured this twice. On the opposite side of the wall that I was trying to fix was refrigerator. Last thing I wanted to do was drill a hole and have it come up under the refrigerator.
Anyway I went downstairs marked the spot that I thought was a dead center of the 2x4 plate and drove in one screw probably 2 and 1/2 in long.
I went back upstairs and the squeak was gone. Well there goes an hour and a half trying to fix squeaks.
You also mentioned the floor joists were offset because of the span and you could see where the nails missed in some areas. It might just be the nails in the floor and not the wall. This is more common than squeeks at the wall.

 

[mpoland33]

Thanks so much. THis weekend I'm tearing the carpet out of the first room so that's my test room. In the larger room, the squeaks are coming from everywhere really but mostly out well away from the way. My wife notices bouncing too so I'm HOPING screws will do the trick but if that doesnt work, I'm going to try the wall trick.

Have you ever or would you recommend adding any 2x8's to the joists below just to see if the extra support helps?

 

[highup]

It certainly wouldn't hurt. If this is something you might want to attempt once you get the angles figured out and are ready to install I would use deck type screws that have a torx head but I also pre-drill the holes to keep from splitting the wood.
If it squeaks all over I would think they missed with a lot of fasteners or use the wrong type of nail. You mentioned some water damage. The swelling from the water could have loosened the fasteners or they didn't use enough of them. When a house is built with two by eight or two by 12s they are constructed in the summer and the winter and the 2x4 material can be wet. It can shrink a lot as it dries out, so the squeaks might have been there all along to some degree.
With the carpet out you will be able to determine very quickly if the squeaks have anything to do with the wall plates.