To pad, or not to pad

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highup

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Customer began picking out carpet for the stairway a year ago. Couple months later they picked a different carpet.
Then we found out that carpet had been discontinued so they picked another one.
It had a pattern so I remeasured. Stanton can only measure half inch increments and I wanted the pattern to match going down the stairs onto the landing then down the next flight.
I had given Stanton a diagram with all the dimensions, showing all the offsets, and somehow 26 and 1/2 on one flight and 26 and 1/4 on the second flight through them into a tizzy.
I went back another time and made a template then took a picture and made more measurements than I had before. Somehow I was able to pacify them.
In the meantime the couple has separated, yet both are very concerned about the outcome of the stairway.
They don't really have a choice in how long it takes but in really I really want to get this done. 😁
You can't grab a warehouse guy out of thin air. The stores warehouse guy is extremely efficient and he knows where everything is how much they've got etc etc. When he's gone, the universe collapses.
I know how to look for stuff and I know where most things are and I can operate the forklift and the carpet machine.
He's sick so I become Superman.
There is simply no other choice. The store must operate and so does the warehouse. When you need to be there for deliveries to unload materials or load up materials for contractors......
...... Let's just say that me doing my stairs is going to hold up four different people from doing their jobs. That's not going to happen.
 

JPfloor

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Like sisals, ( glued down a lot of those) I always felt these types of flat weaves were designed to be used as area rugs, not installed wall to wall. Making it into rugs probably accounts for the fancy backing. Yet designers kept calling for it to be installed and we kept doing it… Seams and all. 🫣

Extra wide leather and fabric edging with mitered corners used to be popular with these style carpets when made into rugs… Not sure if that’s still in style but it looked nice.
 
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highup

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Like sisals, ( glued down a lot of those) I always felt these types of flat weaves were designed to be used as area rugs, not installed wall to wall. Making it into rugs probably accounts for the fancy backing. Yet designers kept calling for it to be installed and we kept doing it… Seams and all. 🫣

Extra wide leather and fabric edging with mitered corners used to be popular with these style carpets when made into rugs… Not sure if that’s still in style but it looked nice.
I can recall one time seeing a rug with that wide leather edging. I recall the stitches are a couple inches apart. The rug was under a dining room table and had been sent out for cleaning yet they didn't bother to have someone reattached to loose edging. I believe it was silk. It was a very slippery even on top of the rug pad.
Not slippery to walk on, it even slid very easily over the felt pad. That was a very thin piece of fabric. I think fabric is a better term than rug.
The material I'm working with, if I compress it between my fingers is almost a quarter inch thick and pretty dense.
As far as the backing material, I'm thinking it wouldn't scratch someone's wood floor if they didn't put a pad under it. Besides that this looks like very expensive stuff and it would impress the customer more than just the action back.
 

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JPfloor

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I can recall one time seeing a rug with that wide leather edging. I recall the stitches are a couple inches apart. The rug was under a dining room table and had been sent out for cleaning yet they didn't bother to have someone reattached to loose edging. I believe it was silk. It was a very slippery even on top of the rug pad.
Not slippery to walk on, it even slid very easily over the felt pad. That was a very thin piece of fabric. I think fabric is a better term than rug.
The material I'm working with, if I compress it between my fingers is almost a quarter inch thick and pretty dense.
As far as the backing material, I'm thinking it wouldn't scratch someone's wood floor if they didn't put a pad under it. Besides that this looks like very expensive stuff and it would impress the customer more than just the action back.
We did a lot of fabricating with tufted goods as well as hand tufting. Always applied monk’s cloth as a backing. Was made out of cotton, very soft. Made for a nice finishing touch. What they did here looks similar but that backing looks thicker and fancier than monk’s cloth.
 

highup

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The backing is very nice quality. It looks like cotton.
Homeowner is very happy. I'm finishing the top 5 stairs tomorrow. Had more warehouse duty so I didn't want to partially start the steps.
I'm drilling and screwing the tack strip down. It came without nails.
Drilling and using screws does less damage to the treads in case the carpet it ever removed. It goes really fast.
I ran the pad, 1/3 over the nose and taped it. To make installation easier.
I haven't figured out how to bill this one out yet. In the past year since this job came up, I probably revisited the job at least 4 times to measure and offer advice. I drew up a scale drawing to better explain to Stanton that I wanted the pattern to line up with the landing. N basically, I wanted the stair pattern to line up with the landing.
Im not used to being a consultant but I want some compensation. The job is just 9 miles away.
I don't have a shop, so I had to haul my table saw, the saw table, my router table, clamps etc to the stores warehouse to make the bullnose for the landing. I'm thinking $700 or $800.
If this was more straight forward, but still a higher end runner, how to you guys bill these out?
Hourly, per step, time.....
....pull a number out of your ass after seeing what car they drive? 😁
 

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highup

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Measure and discuss the layout and dimension changes 4 times as their decisions change over a one year period, then add $20 for your 3 hours of discussion, options and advice, not to mention $40 in fuel costs a long with 3 hours of city travel time and get back to me. 😁
Just saying, I have 6 hours and $40 worth of fuel before the material was even ordered.
......and I'm not Keith Shannon with a fully auto Duo fast. 😁
 
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highup

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.....and I'm not competing with anyone when I work. I'm fortunate that way. I want to be fair, but I didn't just show up and start installing. That's 33% of the work involved.
....you said $250?
Ok, if $250 is one third of the work, then that's $750 + 5 hours making and installing the nose....... So now that's $975. Thanks, I was thinking I was a bit cheap. 😁
I didn't just measure. I drew an accurate layout including the wall thickness between the stairs, plus the 4" tread spacing on each side of the stairs and communicated twice with Stanton because they only have measuring tools in 1/2 inch increments. We also discussed stretching in the landing versus keeping it in proportion with the stair runners as a loose rug.
I got a lot of time in this one before bringing a tool on site.
 
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highup

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Off the top of my ass 😜 measure/ consult: 250.00….stair nose fabrication: 350.00……Installation : 450- to 550.00

Gre8t work as usual Highup 😎
That sounds fair. It would be a lot different if there was no pattern, the bullnose already existed and the customer ordered the material and I simply showed up to install it.
This is for a doctor, his doctor wife and I've worked for them a couple times before. They wouldn't let anyone else do the job anyway.
I'm "special" 😉
........oh lord, I know Daris is gonna comment on that one. 😁
 

JPfloor

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With all you did I’d just bill it by the hour (including travel) plus materials… Break it down over the year you spent with them to remind them how much time you put into this project. Then knock off a few hours and add a discount for customer loyalty. That always makes them feel good. Should come out to more that way.

I’d have been scared to let them cut and bind the runner and still match both flights to the landing.
 
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highup

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With all you did I’d just bill it by the hour (including travel) plus materials… Break it down over the year you spent with them to remind them how much time you put into this project. Then knock off a few hours and add a discount for customer loyalty. That always makes them feel good. Should come out to more that way.

I’d have been scared to let them cut and bind the runner and still match both flights to the landing.
Very detailed drawings and explained exactly what was necessary. They cut custom runners all day long. The only issue was not knowing which end was top and which end was bottom on each section. It took a couple tries back and forth to test to see which ends matched up to the runner. But it's working out very well. I just got back over to the job about an hour ago. Too much to run around to do but thankful that these customers are extremely patient. 👍
 

highup

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Well, turned out pretty. He's thrilled and that's what I live for. $665 for the nose and carpet installation plus $150 for the measuring, "consultation" and drawing a detailed drawing for Stanton so they could cut the pattern to match the landing. He didn't baulk at $815
I hand tacked the sides of the treads with #17 1/2" brads. I took wire nails too, but the heads, even tho small, couldn't be hidden. The brads, 5 on each side of the treads, hid nicely and didn't take all that long. 1/2" brads are too small for my fat fingers, so needle nose pliers did just fine. Not much holding power required, so the brads ought to be fine.
Now on to the next victim....
....er, customer. 😁
Kidding, it was a pleasure working there. Very nice people.
 

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