Wood/Tar Paper Adhesive

Discussion in 'Beginners Forum' started by karl avellar, Jul 31, 2019.

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  1. Aug 17, 2019 #21

    karl avellar

    karl avellar

    karl avellar

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    Highup, thank you for the information. The blocks I use initially will be irregular on the bottom due the remains of the old tar and felt paper. So I am thinking of putting a larger square together with tape to hold them together. Three 9" pieces and four 6" pieces make up the two types of squares I need. Then before I place them I will fill some the of the spaces on the bottom that are lower with adhesive. All this finegalling(?) means I am assuming the tongue and groove and the adhesive will hold the 3/4" thick squares even though they are not totally covering 100%, but adequately on the squares to hold them when finally set. I know the existing pieces are FIRMLY down after 50 years. Do you think this method will work with these irregular blocks? I only have to guarantee that the fill is not higher than the old tar and paper and I can do the fill and let it set. The height will vary square to square so when I stop placing the squares I have to assure that the placed squares for the next work period are at a uniform height. With all that said, the adhesive I have seems to take a while to get tacky. The finished floor will not be like a ballroom dance floor. The existing floor is not either, but it is fairly good and I hope the repaired floor will be too. Thank you, Karl
     
  2. Aug 18, 2019 #22

    highup

    highup

    highup

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    I'm sometimes a lot better at asking questions to get feedback from people like you, so that the smart guys can better answer your questions.
    I have no clue as to the set time in your situation. If the "correct" adhesive is no longer made, then any advice becomes hit or miss and gets a lot more difficult.
    Would the product you are using require any open time?
    If so, will the set up time be 10 minutes or 4 hours? Nobody here will have a clue.
    Testing will help you. On a scrap of tar paper, trowel on some adhesive and let is set for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, then 1 hour, then two hours.
    Do this inside the house, not outdoors in the sun.
    Test with your finger tips as far as consistency goes.
    Thick, or thin? .....was it the same as applied as 30 minutes later?
    ....or did it flash off and become thicker? If it became thicker, that's probably a good thing?
    Flashing off makes an adhesive thicker and more stable....... more grabby in most cases. It leaves the adhesive itself and the carriers will evaporate or go away faster. ie: less movement as you place the material. That's usually a good thing.
    I'd do some testing like I mentioned before............... spread the adhesive and let it set for 10 minutes, 30 minutes then on hour.................... At each time level, install (press in place) a piece of scrap wood as if you were installing it. Let them set for a day. ..... or 5 days. .........or 2 weeks? I have no clue. If you let them all set for a week.................. start pulling them apart and see how each one stuck............ see how each one behaved.
    That's what I would do if no other instructions were available and you are using an adhesive deemed "experimental"
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  3. Aug 19, 2019 #23

    Ernesto

    Ernesto

    Ernesto

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    Typically the instructions on most all adhesives tell you the open time.
    I do believe I said to do a bond test too.
     
  4. Aug 19, 2019 #24

    highup

    highup

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    His situation is so, soo, sooo different than anything I've ever seen before.
     
  5. Aug 19, 2019 #25

    karl avellar

    karl avellar

    karl avellar

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    Highup, I did your recommended test and touch tested the adhesive at different times. It looks like the flash time is somewhere between 2 to 3 hours. I do not have the skilled touch. I put a block down at 3 hours and will test it's strength in a couple of days.

    With all the gyrations I will be making to set the irregular pieces down I hope it works reasonably well. I know these pieces will not have adhesive on their entire surface. I am hoping the tongue and groove available and some adhesive, say 50% to 70% will hold for the long run. Can you comment please on my optimism ?
    Thank you, Karl
     
  6. Aug 20, 2019 #26

    highup

    highup

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    Karl, from my guess, your testing will tell more then I can advise. We sometimes let adhesives get so " dry" they won't transfer to our fingers with a gentle touch. That would be way to dry for what you want.
    3 hours seems like a long time. Your testing will tell you what feels right as far as strength goes. That said, I'm not sure how long you would want to leave a piece of wood stuck before trying to pull it out.
    This is the adhesive?
    https://www.apoc.com/products/roof-...ll-season-rubberized-flashing-cement-apoc-365
     
  7. Sep 14, 2019 #27

    karl avellar

    karl avellar

    karl avellar

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    Highup and Ernesto.
    Thanks for the help so far. I have completed about 2/3 s of the block installation with mixed results. The blocks are not all tightly connected. Most of the reason is the irregularity due to the tar on the blocks, the damaged edges of the existing blocks, the small varying sizes of the pieces and the inexperience and lack of talent of the installer. But the results will be acceptable. This is the second time they have been taken up and put back down.
    Some of the cracks will have to be filled with a wood filler due to misalignment and incompetence, worst case 1/8" between pieces along with some damage marks. Could you recommend a wood filler for oak flooring that could be stained? The parquet pieces are all varying colors ,so matching is not necessary but straight white would not work.
    Hopefully sanding will reduce the height difference adequately.
    I used only one layer of felt for the good pieces ( no tar or felt on bottom) and none for the bad pieces. It worked out that there were enough bad pieces for one room and enough good pieces for the other two rooms.
    Pictures are attached. They do not really show the irregularities well and the installed blocks look better than they really are. The trim, using small pieces of block, are not yet installed. (I need to find some one who likes to whitewash fences to do it) First install on concrete.JPG First install on concrete.JPG First install on concrete.JPG
    Thanks, Karl
     

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  8. Sep 16, 2019 #28

    Ernesto

    Ernesto

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    Cool Karl, good work. Cept you didn't flip the pattern on the bottom right.
     
  9. Sep 19, 2019 #29

    karl avellar

    karl avellar

    karl avellar

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    The flipped pattern I was going to leave alone. My son-in-law said you should fix it. We tested the adhesion and the squares came up ok, all 18 squares. The pattern is wrong the whole length after the error! I think you said it would be a messy job I undertook. You were wrong, it was ridiculously messy. It took all afternoon to get them up, scrape the new tar and put them down. These were the blocks with excess tar and not scraped originally. It seems like there is more tar on the block's top surface now than on the concrete. Fortunately, they clean up easily.
    Can you recommend a wood filler to fill the cracks and damage marks. Wood putty comes to mind, but I have never liked it.
    Thanks, Karl
     
  10. Sep 20, 2019 #30

    Ernesto

    Ernesto

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    Are you going to sand and finish it? If so ask your floor guy. Theres plenty of fillers out there for that.
     

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