We don't vote on carbon taxes on Oregon

Discussion in 'The Bucket' started by highup, Mar 14, 2019.

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  1. Mar 14, 2019 #1

    highup

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    The powers that be just do what they want.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/energy...onomic-engine-and-a-decarbonization-catalyst/

    "More than 55,000 residents already work in Oregon’s clean energy sector, 50 times as many as those employed by fossil fuel industries, and this number is growing 11% annually – faster than the statewide average. These jobs typically can’t be outsourced, are often accessible with a high school or technical degree, and 11,000 of them are located in rural communities."

    "Compare this upside to coal generation’s dismal outlook – a December 2018 report to state regulators from PacifiCorp, Oregon’s second-largest utility, confirmed the bulk of its existing coal units cost more to operate than closing them and building new clean energy"

    Looks to me like the private market is already working......... but that's not enough for the doom and gloomers.
    Oregon is 50% hydro power. 76% renewable including the hydo. 3% coal powered. Do we really need a carbon tax............... It's a feel-good tax and I'm betting a large portion goes to things that are not directly related to their almighty effort. Our legislators (dictators) are going to save the planet.:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  2. Mar 15, 2019 #2

    Jon

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  3. Mar 15, 2019 #3

    Ernesto

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    People prolly create more methane than cows and sheep. #scorchedearth
     
  4. Jun 29, 2019 #4

    highup

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    Actually they don't.
     
  5. Jun 29, 2019 #5

    havasu

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    Unless your daily diet consists of alot of Mexican food, which I could live on forever!
     
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  6. Jul 2, 2019 #6

    highup

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    Here's the Governoris's Play book. She said Oregon is one of the cleanest states in the country, and we are............ yet she wants to financially ruin the state with her carbon tax.
    The republicans skipped the state so the vote could not be held by it's deadline. The carbon tax bill was declared an 'emergency' bill and it's effects would have begun immediately, starting with a 22 cent hike in gas taxes that spirals upwards at her will.

    Now, she says if they don't make a compromise on the bill, she may just impose the bill by executive power................. Friggin' dictator. :mad:
     
  7. Jul 2, 2019 #7

    highup

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    "Oregon-Specific Impacts Climate change threatens our communities, our economy, our ecosystems, and our way of life in Oregon. We see the effects of climate change in declining snowpack, reduced summer streamflow, and water scarcity.
    9 We’re witnessing larger and more damaging wildfires, insect outbreaks, heat waves, floods, acidic oceans
    10, and algal blooms. Rising sea levels place homes and coastal infrastructure at risk
    11, while changing ocean conditions compromise the health of fisheries and marine ecosystems.
    12 Climate change is already exacting significant costs on Oregon’s economy. Our tourism and natural resource-based industries, including thousands of Oregon farmers, fishermen, and shellfish growers, are already experiencing significant negative effects.
    13 The state spent $100 million this year fighting wildfires, a figure which does not include the value of lost timber, infrastructure, or economic activity.
    14 The closure of trails due to wildfire, cancellation of outdoor events due to heat and smoke, diminished skiing and rafting due to lack of snowfall and summer streamflow, and fishing and shellfish closures threaten Oregon’s $11.8 billion tourism industry.
    15"
    Our snow pack and stream flows are just fine. Tourism is just fine. Climate change isn't affecting fishing ether.
     
  8. Jul 2, 2019 #8

    highup

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    Oregonian, pose even greater risks to vulnerable populations: rural communities, low-income communities, communities of color, and Tribes.
    16 These populations may rely heavily on climate-impacted industries and natural resources, may be the least able to afford required adaptations, have fewer resources to plan for and recover from extreme weather events, and often suffer disproportionately from exposure to other pollutants.
    17 Communities of color and low-income households already bear a disproportionate burden of disease and may experience cumulative health effects as climate-related disruptions increase in frequency. Climate disruptions may affect resources and habitats important to the cultural, community, medicinal, and economic health of Tribes.
    18

    Ya just can't make this stuff up........... because our Governoris does.:rolleyes:
     
  9. Jul 2, 2019 #9

    highup

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    Executive Orders: EVs and Building Efficiency
    • The Governor’s Executive Order on Electric Vehicles established a goal of 50,000 zero-emissions vehicles in Oregon by 2020 (18,000 today).
    • The Governor’s Executive Order on Efficiency calls for new state-owned buildings to be carbon neutral in 2022; all new buildings to be solar ready by 2022; and new residential buildings to “zero energy ready” starting in 2023.

    This says were are going to have almost 70% more electric cars in the state in the next 6 months. That's just 32,000 cars. Besides, it's impossible to make that happen unless the state buys them all........ in less than 6 months.

    ......we have over 4 million cars in the state. What kind of a dent do you suppose that is going to make? What is she smoking? :rolleyes:
    ....not to mention the millions of out of state trucks and cars that travel here daily. It's just feel-good stupid.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  10. Jul 3, 2019 #10

    Ernesto

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    Yeah skipping out on a vote is bullshit. They should be fired and docked pay. I mean either party. I know both sides have done that back to Lincoln when he ducked out a window. But thats not what we pay them for. Suck it up and go vote.
    Plus some idiots aligned with right wing extremest militia said they would come to town and back up the GOP with force is necessary. Well the gov should have called out the national guard instead of shutting down the government offices. Thats what the guard is for, internal security run by the Governor. Where is antifa when you need them. ;)
     
  11. Jul 3, 2019 #11

    Ernesto

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    Oh did you forget one of the state senators or what ever said he would shoot any state police if they came to get him ? Tell all the truth.
     
  12. Jul 3, 2019 #12

    highup

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    I haven't heard anyone defend what he said........... just stupid. One idiot did that.
    The Republicans did a favor by doing their walkout. It made the national and probably world news and brought this cap and trade job killing fiasco out of the closet and put it on the neon stage. I'd love to shake every one of their hands.
    Problem is, this was a relatively quiet bill only to be voted on by Oregon's Gestapo. It didn't get much notice in the news so most people didn't even know it was being voted on, or what it was.

    They deemed it an "emergency bill" which gives it some special legal merit.
    This is stuff the people should vote on, not the legislators. The reason it was declared an "emergency" is because if voted on by we the people, it wouldn't have gotten even 25% of the vote............ and they knew that.
    This is one rare instance where running out of state was the right thing to do.
    I'd simply like to know why this type of thing isn't a mandatory "we the people" vote.
    They are supposed to vote on money for schools, transportation, infrastructure, housing and building codes........ stuff like that.
    You think it would be OK if your governor used his pen to confiscate all guns with an "executive privilege" order even tho the legislature couldn't agree to do that?
    Oregon's legislature ended up not having enough votes to pass the bill even if the Republicans showed up...... but only by one or two no votes by democrats.
    ......and they did show up to vote on the other bills before they recessed for the summer............... or however long they do that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  13. Jul 3, 2019 #13

    Ernesto

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    So your saying if either party doesn't like a bill they should run out of state so there's no quorum? It's nice to be back.
     
  14. Jul 3, 2019 #14

    highup

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    If you spent $20 grand to install a new engine in your 2007 Freightliner truck two years ago and this law new cap and trade got enacted, you would have to buy another engine that is compliant with the new cap and trade laws. Yup, just let them vote to save the earth. Nobody gets hurt and energy prices will stay the same.:rolleyes:
    Nope, in this case they made the right decision. Our government is trying to ruin our state by outdumbing California.
     
  15. Jul 3, 2019 #15

    Ernesto

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    If you just spent 20 grand it would be compliant as anything from 2010 engines are compliant. I don't know what your reading. https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-lawmakers-diesel-truck-regulations-portland-bill-metro/

     
  16. Jul 4, 2019 #16

    highup

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    so sorry...... I you spent 7 to 9 grand on a cheaper top end rebuild (sleeves, pistons etc without removing the engine) a few years ago, you will now need another engine that is compliant with the regime and it's merry wishes. I didn't think you could mix pixie dust and change the engine's piston shape, the combustion chamber size and head's internal shape and the cam profile, the exhaust manifold shape and exhaust diameter, the mufflers and catalytic converters, and any electronic controls and sensors that are not part of your old antiquated engine.
    If you are a single truck owner, or have a couple of trucks............... meeting the criteria could easily sink you.
    Major truck lines could relocate or just pay the carbon tax and do nothing to their truck engines.
    ...paying the carbon tax does not reduce carbon.
    ...so .........the major carbon emissions are obviously from the large corporate truck fleets. If they just pay the fine. What is gained?
    Meanwhile, the little guy is out of work and can't drive his trucks.
    Oregon's republicans understand reality. AKA common sense.
    The Oregon Gestapo only sees the "feel good" when they sing their national anthem. ................ We Are The World, We Are The Children" ........... "We'd Like To Teach The World To Sing" or whatever makes them feel so special.
    Most bills are stuff they (both parties) should deal with even in defeat. In this one they were right on. This in house vote would be devastating to the state. (it's residents and small businesses) Democrats here only see rainbows, unicorns and butterflies. That is just stupid.
    Alternatively, they could instead, simply and gradually encourage or add new regulations one at a time, defined by effectiveness or need, (reality and science) instead of this sweeping madness.

    .........about your own governor singlehandedly taking your guns away on an "executive order" .........apparently that is OK with you? Guns, ammo, targets, optics........... anything perceived as evil.
    Remember .........legislators are so much smarter than us, and need to be bowed down to when they appear in person. Is licking their shoes OK or a no-no? ;)

    Never in my life have I witnessed anything slightly close to this kind of devastating legislation in my state. ......and I've had the same phone number since I was 4 years old.
    This bill is built on hopes, prayers and psychotic drug residue form the 60's.

    Nobody here including yourself would vote for this bill. I mean, really. Read it and find something truthful or constructive or beneficial.

    Oregon probably rates #2 as far as green goes in the US. We are already squeaky clean. No nukes, no coal power, we have a huge wind power system........ large enough to be envied by many in the world and hydro power. We have bottle deposit requirements (Oregon started the nations mandatory bottle and can recycling (10 cents per bottle or can) ) They are phasing out plastic bags, straws, Styrofoam containers. None of this is afore mentioned part of the 2020 bill.............. we already have this stuff. I'm proud we have this stuff.
    Our legislators are just plain overbearing, egotistical, arrogant nutbaskets, that's all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  17. Jul 4, 2019 #17

    highup

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    In that OPB (liberal biased acticle) it said:
    Trucking industry opponents of the cap-and-trade bill also protested the diesel bill, but they dropped their opposition after the bill was amended to affect only Portland-area trucks.
    OK, so the rest of the states truckers are just peachy keen and don't have to follow the reguslations. The thousands and thousands of other trucks traveling through the state hourly are not required to do a damn thing.

    ...so these restrictions apply to 3 or 4 large counties in this state, and we do not have the ability to regulate trucks passing into and through the state........................................... and we are achieving what? ......in the scale of the earths climate issues?
    The effects could not be measured in the .00000000000001 scale of whatever the crazy people measure. It's unmeasurable by present day instruments. Oregon's population is like 3.5 million.
     
  18. Jul 4, 2019 #18

    Ernesto

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    If if if
     
  19. Jul 4, 2019 #19

    highup

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    Ern, there is a point when rebellion is right. Show me one state who's citizens would vote for a carbon or cap and trade bill like ours. I bet none out of 50. This occasional rebellion brings topics to light where otherwise a states constituents would wake up one day and go............................................... What the F! How did that happen? (while we slept everyone would discover)
    This was a good thing.
    .......a great thing
    ........a fantastic thing.

    Hope it doesn't happen again soon. We need more openness in government and not this low key, quietness, sneakiness to slip in a personal or party agenda.
    I have my issues with the Republicans to. I am neither.
     
  20. Jul 4, 2019 #20

    highup

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    Read the bill.
     

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