Once I got into Dal, the employees were very nice, especially when they found out what I needed them for. They gave me many more chipped pieces than I paid for.
Any questions?
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TNT
Well-Known Member
TNT
Well-Known Member
Interestly enough, when doing work for the city, county and state, they will often allow me to split a job into parts to be below the $15K limit for all the additional paperwork involved. Very nice of them!
Tia
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Yeah, it's a big crew but only two guys installing, one journeyman and a helper----VCT
Everyone else on prep----T & M
------and it wasn't quite 5000' (and maybe it wasn't Friday) I was making a rhetorical point. The guy seemed to think that was a lot of floor. It's plenty for an amateur or do-it-yourself home owner but I was trying to make the point that to carry license one should have many YEARS in the trade and not just a handful of small projects under one's belt.
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TNT
Well-Known Member
Yes, but again, our contractors are not required to have a license in this state, even with a legitimate business. Not saying that it's right, but it's fact. I have subs with 20, 30 years, no required license. It would be nice to see that required, to get rid of the little buttwipes whose tiles fall off the walls, but it just isn't there.
The main reason work gets split for me on government jobs is to avoid my having to prove prevailing wage, which is always exceeded, but then causes me huge amounts of paperwork. I appreciate that from them.
Tia
TNT
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone can get a license without the ability to prove that they deserve one. Anyway, I still have a really hard time believing two guys laid 5,000 sf in a day, even with it primed for them.
Tia
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i've spread and laid more than that by myself in 8 hours.
it's all about the conditions-----how the jobsite is laid out and organized.
it doesn't set up like that very often
it doesn't hurt to be young, strong, smart and have spent your entire adult working life on your knees-------specializing in specifically this kind of work.
it's not ALL that I do. But at that time in my life it's what I was doing almost every day for many, many years in a very competitive environment.
i know a handful of guys who are quite a bit faster than I am or ever was.
i'm not quite sure how they do it. it must be some kind of witchcraft or electronic trickery because the numbers they put up baffle me too.
TNT
Well-Known Member
Incognito,
Now don't get mad, but I've seen fast with no transfer. There's fast, and then there's quality fast. Not saying it can't be done, but the only time I've ever seen that fast with appropriate transfer is with around 30 plus years in the business and a very experienced tag team. Even so, they told me 5,000 sf in a day is ridiculous! Thanks for giving me a good excuse to call my old buds, though! Tim and Larry, brothers. Fastest, bestest. One cuts, hands off to the other to lay. They said that much in a day is not only insane, it's impossible. Can you send us a video? I don't want to dispute you, so proof would be great!
Wondering ... you said at first that you didn't do that yourself, it was just rhetorical, then you said you did. Please explain! I love a learning curve!
Tia
Now don't get mad, but I've seen fast with no transfer. There's fast, and then there's quality fast. Not saying it can't be done, but the only time I've ever seen that fast with appropriate transfer is with around 30 plus years in the business and a very experienced tag team. Even so, they told me 5,000 sf in a day is ridiculous! Thanks for giving me a good excuse to call my old buds, though! Tim and Larry, brothers. Fastest, bestest. One cuts, hands off to the other to lay. They said that much in a day is not only insane, it's impossible. Can you send us a video? I don't want to dispute you, so proof would be great!
Wondering ... you said at first that you didn't do that yourself, it was just rhetorical, then you said you did. Please explain! I love a learning curve!
Tia
That's 12 tiles per minute uninterrupted, for 7 hours straight without missing a beat?
................. and you know guys considerably faster?
I wanna see some you tube.
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I have laid over 5000' of VCT alone in a day but on this particular day it was a little less than that with two guys. There was no prep and all the tile was right there where we needed it. It's easy money really.
When I was an apprentice the old men I worked with laid 10 cartons an hour on average when I spread the glue and opened up all the tile for them. With two 15 minute breaks that's 75 cartons a day PER MAN. They did that in their late 50's smoking cigarettes and drinking beer all day. That was something of a "quota" I guess that not all that uncommon at fairly large commercial shops.
When I later moved to California I worked at a shop that was doing the Target stores. Apprentices did all the prep and opened all the tile onto pallets. We had to Kleen sweep, spread glue and lay. The "quota" was 84 cartons a day. I couldn't believe they had it down that tight but son of a gun at the end of the jobs it always came out to darn near that. That wasn't including the red feature tile or cuts to the walls or off in the back offices. We just had to lay the field in the store at those production numbers.
I can lay a box of tile (that's open, on the floor with the glue spread and dried) in less than a minute. I don't know if my camcorder even works any more. Once the kids are grown and off to school we kind of forgot all about that contraption.
Don't worry about me getting mad. I've got callouses growing on top of callouses where my feelings used to be. (g)
TNT
Well-Known Member
That's 12 tiles per minute uninterrupted, for 7 hours straight without missing a beat?
................. and you know guys considerably faster?
I wanna see some you tube.
Please don't tell me that includes grouting. I'll fall over in a heap of faintness, and Randy will have to put vapors under my nose.
Tia
He is referring to VCT, which is pretty quick, once the glue has been spread. Grout is not used on this flooring.
TNT
Well-Known Member
TNT
Well-Known Member
Correcting myself, I see now it's VCT. But still, give me a break ... 5,000 square feet in a day? Two peeps? C'mon! That's all I'm gonna say. NO, it's not!
Recently did a giant commercial job and put three amazing installers onto it. Those numbers are bumf**k. IMHO. Sorry, I speak my piece and make my peace.
Tia
**********************************That's 12 tiles per minute uninterrupted, for 7 hours straight without missing a beat?
................. and you know guys considerably faster?
I wanna see some you tube.
Yeah, there are a handful of guys out there faster than me. They take a little less time to keep on point, but mostly they're just a little faster. I go at a steady pace most of the time the way I was trained, but a little faster than 10 cartons an hour after the glue is spread and the boxes are opened, probably closer to 15. I don't really race but it reminds me of a story.
I had a side job to complete. It was Friday and I needed to do a flight of stairs and a large, walk in closet with stretch carpet that night after work. I was laying VCT with a helper at a defense plant in Pomona. It took most of the day to get the glue down and it was like 1-2 PM already. I had all the tile loaded on dollies, the glue was drying and I was curious how fast I could go, balls out in one hour. So I laid 31 cartons in one hour and then raced over to this mansion in San Marino. I drove all the way to that side job and realized I forgot my kicker and iron at home. Man was I pissed off.
I guess I could see it if everything was set-up, stragically stacked, boxes opened, glue already down. Once you get going and you know how to pull tiles out of the stack to fall into your pyramid.
But when people state they installed such and such sf in a day most people include floor prep, adhesive app, sealer down etc.
But when people state they installed such and such sf in a day most people include floor prep, adhesive app, sealer down etc.
I guess some are fast, others are slow. At my age, I just want to finish!
Depends on the layout. I had some 40 yd apts that I could strip,pad and install in an hour.
