LVT adhesive

[highup]

Please don't put this in the adhesive forum.
I'm putting down Earthwerks vinyl tiles on a stairway and am wondering why I can't just use Henry clear thinspread. Those LVT manufacturers have their 'special' adhesives, but some take forever to dry to the proper level of 'tackiness' I am installing over old VAT.
Treads and risers will be done and it will just take two pieces to make each tread. (tiles are 18" square, treads are 34" wide) Stairnose metal will be added once they are completed.

http://www.becklerscarpet.com/luxury-vinyl-tile/earthwerks/aspen/aspen_806/

ST100 (Swiff Train) adhesive is mentioned below, but why won't good old clear thinspread work? Is it because their adhesive allows a tiny amount of 'slip', making installation easier? ......or a compatibility issue with the vinyl tile?

http://www.bolick-distributors.com/...erfiles/earthwerks_lvt_installation_aug09.pdf

 

[Incognito]

Thin spread won't hold well enough to prevent shrinking, swelling or curling.

I've seen it used frequently enough to know you'll get away with it 95% of the time.

But you'll be cheating your customer as it's an inferior adhesive.

VCT is inherently a more stable product so it doesn't need as much grab from the adhesive.

 

[Ernesto]

Is that really going to last long on a staircase? Going over other resilient is begging for bleed through. Luckily it isin't over concrete or is it?

 

[highup]

Thin spread won't hold well enough to prevent shrinking, swelling or curling.

I've seen it used frequently enough to know you'll get away with it 95% of the time.

But you'll be cheating your customer as it's an inferior adhesive.

VCT is inherently a more stable product so it doesn't need as much grab from the adhesive.

Henry Clear Thinspread is inferior? I figured it's close to a top of the line.
We are talking one seam edge in the middle of the step. How much will it shrink over time?
I do understand what you're sayin tho. I have seen old LVT in partial boxes with no edge curling, so that's my bit of confusion.

Is that really going to last long on a staircase? Going over other resilient is begging for bleed through. Luckily it isin't over concrete or is it?

It's 2X6's covered with 1/4 inch plywood, covered with asphalt or VAT.
Dark stairway, and the new tiles are medium dark orangy reddish stone /slate pattern and the old herringbone peel and stick that I removed showed no signs of staining, even on some of the risers, where the peel and stick was adhered directly to the cutback. It had bee on there for 5-6 years or more.
Home will be rented till the market improves.
I cleaned off the old peel and stick residue with a scraper then safety solvent, and it's all getting a skim coat of Webcrete 95 with latex additive. I'm not worried even slightly about bleed through. Stairwell is so dark, I need my Halogen light to work by.

Just curious if the Thinspread will adhere for eternity.

 

[rugaddict]

i believe the current definition of eternity is till the check clears---

 

[Ernesto]

Is this the same one you did last year?

 

[highup]

i believe the current definition of eternity is till the check clears---

It's for a friend, si I want it to last at least a few weeks longer than that.

Is this the same one you did last year?

Never done tile on steps before. Just trying to figure why Thinspread won't work. I have never seen a curled LVT.
After the metal is installed, the visible portion on the riser will be 5 1/2 inches tall and the treads, 10 1/2 inches. Just trying to understand why Thinspread wouldn't work for for this application. Could this material come loose and fall off creating a fallen and can't get up 'cause my neck is broke hazard? (yes, sarcasm )

 

[Ernesto]

Could this material come loose and fall off creating a fallen and can't get up 'cause my neck is broke hazard? (yes, sarcasm )

Well if it did and you didn't use the prescribed adhesive........

 

[McBrides]

Randy, I know it is for a friend, and I know is to be a rental, but there is a reason why you should use the recommended adhesive ~ because the manufacturer of the LVT won't warrant the product if you use Henrys. If there is a subsequent issue, you are going to have to cover replacement yourself.

Having said that, you should be fine going over fortified patch, as long as the bond to the VAT is effective.

I would, however, centre the tile with fills at each stringer ~ it would look a lot nicer than having a grout line/butt seam in the centre of each step. Also, I think I would use rubber nosings instead of metal (but don't use power tape); there is a potential of the nosing fasteners cracking the tiles in the long run. (We bought rubber nosings ONCE from HD; they store it wound on a reel and you will never get the crap to lay flat.)

Just sayin .....

 

[highup]

Well if it did and you didn't use the prescribed adhesive........

You use EverReady batteries in your EverReady flashlight to protect the warranty don't ya?

Randy, I know it is for a friend, and I know is to be a rental, but there is a reason why you should use the recommended adhesive ~ because the manufacturer of the LVT won't warrant the product if you use Henrys. If there is a subsequent issue, you are going to have to cover replacement yourself.

Having said that, you should be fine going over fortified patch, as long as the bond to the VAT is effective.

I would, however, centre the tile with fills at each stringer ~ it would look a lot nicer than having a grout line/butt seam in the centre of each step. Also, I think I would use rubber nosings instead of metal (but don't use power tape); there is a potential of the nosing fasteners cracking the tiles in the long run. (We bought rubber nosings ONCE from HD; they store it wound on a reel and you will never get the crap to lay flat.)

Just sayin .....

Appreciate the good input, Deb.

The edge need's the strength and support of the metal nose because of the stairway construction and having that brittle VAT on the tread. I am going to pre drill through the VAT before driving the scew nails in to avoid the chance of chipping loose the time near the edge. It will be fine. The Peel and stick was there for 5 years and zero issues with the tile telegraphing or sticking. Webcrete with additive adhered as well as epoxy. Very good bond.
There is a bronze tone aluminum nose available and looks so much nicer than gold or silver. The stairway is poorly lit from above or below the stairway. No windows and just a single recessed light fixture above the landing. So instead of blending in too much it needs to show a little for safety.
I am hoping the bronze tone nose looks best.

Thanks to everyone for your advice and input.
Contact cement it is.

 

[Ernesto]

Nothing like contact voc's for breakfast in the mornin.

 

[McBrides]

We have seen those bronze metals, they were ordered in specially for one particular designer customer. Very nice colour. We have been using what we call the 'titanium' colour for a few years now, it is a nice change from stock goldtone or silver. Sounds like you have the project well in hand.

The distributors here charge 3x the price for the titanium, I would hate to see what they would charge for the bronze.

 

[highup]

We have seen those bronze metals, they were ordered in specially for one particular designer customer. Very nice colour. We have been using what we call the 'titanium' colour for a few years now, it is a nice change from stock goldtone or silver. Sounds like you have the project well in hand.

The distributors here charge 3x the price for the titanium, I would hate to see what they would charge for the bronze.

Very little difference in price with bronze.
3X the price? ............is it real titanium?

 

[Incognito]

Henry Clear Thinspread is inferior? I figured it's close to a top of the line.
We are talking one seam edge in the middle of the step. How much will it shrink over time?
I do understand what you're sayin tho. I have seen old LVT in partial boxes with no edge curling, so that's my bit of confusion.

Just curious if the Thinspread will adhere for eternity.

*****************************
I've experienced a lot of curling, shrinking and expanding with LVT (not on my work!) well beyond anything VCT wants to do--------hence the bond to the substrate, and the integrity of the substrate are more critical.

Henry's is a fine brand. They make a product #422 that would be perfect for your purposes.

You won't have a problem with contact cement either. I'm sure you're wanting to use something out of stock rather than bursting for a whole pail of glue.

That's how we roll too when we know it's going to work.

 

[Butcher]

Not the cheepest idea here, but one that wiull work...Double faced tape designed for stair treads. would work well as well.

 

[highup]

*****************************
I've experienced a lot of curling, shrinking and expanding with LVT (not on my work!) well beyond anything VCT wants to do--------hence the bond to the substrate, and the integrity of the substrate are more critical.

Henry's is a fine brand. They make a product #422 that would be perfect for your purposes.

You won't have a problem with contact cement either. I'm sure you're wanting to use something out of stock rather than bursting for a whole pail of glue.

That's how we roll too when we know it's going to work.

Joking about the contact, but yes, it would work.
I have a small amount of Mannington MT711 which says for LVT......... probably only enough for the stairs.
Retailer might still have some of that Swiff adhesive, but not sure how old.

Not the cheepest idea here, but one that wiull work...Double faced tape designed for stair treads. would work well as well.

Never did get a sample pack from Boa......... probably forgot to ask.

 

[Incognito]

Joking about the contact, but yes, it would work.
I have a small amount of Mannington MT711 which says for LVT......... probably only enough for the stairs.
Retailer might still have some of that Swiff adhesive, but not sure how old.


Never did get a sample pack from Boa......... probably forgot to ask.

********************
We use a lot of the MT711 for carpet tiles------and I think some vinyl back carpets. I kind of get them jumbled in my head unless the pail is staring me in the face. I recognize glues more by the colors on the label, then the color, texture, smell and tack on the floor. They're changing the labels, names and numbers more than any substantial changes to the products.

Never tried it MT711 on LVT but it would be a better choice over clear thin spread. Its one of the adhesives that will take a little more time to tack. Now I can't recall offhand but we were using a Mannington glue that wasn't too great and then they were using something that was outstanding. I can't recall now which was which. Pretty sure it wasn't the MT711 that was the outstanding one though.

We do a lot of jobs where the moisture issues are marginal------either just over the top or just a hair under the threshold. So customers will in those cases upgrade to the premium adhesive where they get higher tolerance for moisture either to meet the warranty or just as insurance.

It's funny those slight upgrades usually make life a lot easier for us as those tend to be the adhesives that tack up quickly, have great initial grab and then keep everything snug and sweet for the duration of the install. We're typically either moving heavy furniture straight away across the floors or pallets of tile, glue and whatever else so those things matter a lot.

 

[Ernesto]

I have not researched this new product enough to see if if fits in the LVT catagory but it looks promising.

http://www.wftaylor.com/index.php/3072/mspr/

 

[Nick]

We have seen those bronze metals, they were ordered in specially for one particular designer customer. Very nice colour. We have been using what we call the 'titanium' colour for a few years now, it is a nice change from stock goldtone or silver. Sounds like you have the project well in hand.

The distributors here charge 3x the price for the titanium, I would hate to see what they would charge for the bronze.

We have them here . The color is called Antique Gold .
Twice the price of silver and gold .

 

[McBrides]

Very little difference in price with bronze.
3X the price? ............is it real titanium?

This is still a comparatively small community compared to other major Canadian cities. They charge what the market will bear.

Having said that, I will share a supply story with ya...

The shop we crew for stocks some supplies, but not necessarily the brands we prefer to use. The one absent item in particular is DuoFast pad staples (the other guys are using cheap Arrow staplers). There are 2 supply houses here, the oldest operating supply house I will call FIXX, and they supply the shop. The other supply house is an outlet of a supply house we have dealt with in TO. Of course, being loyal, we shop at the latter.

In November, we went to pick up some pad staples, and our supplier was out of stock, leaving us no choice but to go to FIXX. We normally pay less than $5 a box, but left FIXX with our pad staples, having paid $10.25, including tax.

We saw the FIXX salesman in the warehouse office last week (he knows who we are), and told him about being overcharged. He said, "did you tell them that you are installers?" I replied, "I would have thought that when we parked that 20-foot long cargo van in front of the glass doors, it would have tipped them off...". He says, "well, we have two price lists, one for installers and one for general contractors, so I guess we owe you another box of staples." Like we will see them.

Sorry to go off-topic.