“Not enough Adhesive”

[MikeAntonetti]

I’ve heard a few times on flooring failures customers stating “the installer didn’t use enough adhesive” one job the slab wasn’t flat for hardwood, first one was floating(creaking)and I should’ve said something but didn’t want to throw the retailer/installer under the bus but customer didn’t say anything about it as I was giving tile removal estimate. They got another floor, hardwood gluedown that’s sticky/popping so estimated to remove that, homeowner stated not enough adhesive and he’s in jail. And today which the term adhesive is incorrect on a tile job along with the replacement tile that cracked without putting a membrane down for the new replacement tile. Their whole living room tile got replaced, homeowner stated “they didn’t use enough adhesive.”

 

[Mark Brown]

It blows me away how many tile removals i see with dry tile, no back butter, mismatched rake, no keying..
basically just as wrong as it could be.

Do people not know WHY you only rake in one direction? Why you butter? Basically how to install tile,

 

[highup]

It blows me away how many tile removals i see with dry tile, no back butter, mismatched rake, no keying..
basically just as wrong as it could be.

Do people not know WHY you only rake in one direction? Why you butter? Basically how to install tile,

It's been a number of years ago I was asked to remove a bunch of baseboards after some travertine tile was installed.
These were like 15-in squares of travertine throughout a bathroom hallway large, I mean huge, master bedroom-bath and even in the kids baths.
All of it was being replaced. In the master bath the walls and the jacuzzi tub were done the same way.
The homeowner told me that the travertine tiles were cracking.
We walked into one of the kids bathrooms and she lifted one of the broken tiles. It should have been traveled in place there was nine globs of thinset at the size of a cookie.
She told me that while he was installing this she was wondering if that was a correct method. He said yes he's been doing this for years and it works out great.
.....well, the company that sold that job does not use him anymore. I can see that his method might work fine on a wall that was not inside of a shower..... But this probably cost a company well over $20,000 because some idiot used dollops of mud instead of using a trowel.
I can picture him now singing hi ho, hi ho to it's off to work I go......
putting dollops of thinset on the corners of each tile using an ice cream scoop.
With the exception of all the broken tiles it actually looked really well done.

 

[C.J.]

Back when I did a lot of Formica I would always run across that clown that thought more contact adhesive was better.

 

[Mark Brown]

Back when I did a lot of Formica I would always run across that clown that thought more contact adhesive was better.

thats another thing that blows me away. Contact, PL.... more is not better. Adhesion is from contact not volume.

 

[C.J.]

thats another thing that blows me away. Contact, PL.... more is not better. Adhesion is from contact not volume.

Funny how that works. Sometimes less is more and slow is fast. What’s that you say, slow is fast? Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. There’s something to be said for taking your time and sippin your coffee while you ease into the job.

 

[MikeAntonetti]

An ice cream scoop! Brilliant!

 

[highup]

Funny how that works. Sometimes less is more and slow is fast. What’s that you say, slow is fast? Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. There’s something to be said for taking your time and sippin your coffee while you ease into the job.

But you got to do that outside as the contact cement is drying. Coffee don't taste good with a touch of lacquer fumes.
When I worked with my grandfather, I can only recall one job where he did formica. I think flooring installers used to do that a lot as it drifted from linoleum countertops to formica.
That was around 1974 or 75 when he quit doing formica jobs. That's right when I started, so I'm glad I didn't get into doing formica.

 

[highup]

Back when I did a lot of Formica I would always run across that clown that thought more contact adhesive was better.

I haven't done any since 1975. I can't remember if you're supposed to use a 1/4" x 1/4" square notch trowel or 3/16 V notch.
......two coats on porous surfaces, right?

 

[C.J.]

I haven't done any since 1975. I can't remember if you're supposed to use a 1/4" x 1/4" square notch trowel or 3/16 V notch.
......two coats on porous surfaces, right?

It’s all about the water based adhesives now. I really liked Wilsonart H2O. No need for a respirator and if you know what you’re doing and time things correctly it doesn’t take you any longer to do a job. I actually miss doing countertops. No knee pads and everything is at counter height.

 

[highup]

It’s all about the water based adhesives now. I really liked Wilsonart H2O. No need for a respirator and if you know what you’re doing and time things correctly it doesn’t take you any longer to do a job. I actually miss doing countertops. No knee pads and everything is at counter height.

I bought some I think the wellwood brand. I was experimenting using it to do a fold in some woven carpet.
Didn't work with a damn. You put on one coat and are supposed to let it dry for 20 to 60 minutes and then put on a second coat if needed..... This would have probably needed three coats by the end of the day I'd be ready to fold the carpet over.
Just saying there's a quart in my truck and you can have it if you want.
My feeling with adhesives are if you don't get dizzy they don't work.

 

[C.J.]

I don’t touch the fuzzy stuff anymore but I can’t imagine water based working very good on carpet. P-lam is a different story. It works great. I like the remaining brain cells I have left so I’ll embrace water based in this situation. Other times I definitely would prefer a stinky adhesive. The fumey stuff definitely has more bite. I think there is always a learning curve when using new products for the first time.

 

[highup]

The carpet I was working with was a woven material. When you brush it on it's soaked in just like putting water on a paper towel. The lady did not like smelly things in the house and with contacts in it even if I applied it outside and let it totally dry, it would remain stinky for quite a while. I ended up using hot glue. It was amazing it dried in just a few seconds. It would be a wee bit difficult doing a countertop with hot glue.

 

[DarisMulkin]

That's true to a point. The manufacturing process of woven carpet is a lot different than any 'regular' piece of carpeting.
after telling everybody how wonderful the carpet is I spent 6 hours down at the warehouse rearranging carpet rolls and getting all of the carpet that I want up on top in some sort of sequential roll order.
The next two cuts should come off of roll number five which is 58 ft long.
Before I left the warehouse I put it on the carpet machine and unrolled it
The pattern is wavy. It would take a lot of effort to straighten this one out, and since that's not going to happen, this roll is going back on the pile and I'm going to proceed with roll number six.
The waviness in this carpet is more than it looks like in the image. It's not gradual from one side to the other it has little peaks and valleys. Since they are seams involved, I'm just not going to mess with this roll. There's plenty of carpet for this job so no need to waste time on straightening this one out. I'm sure that I could do it....... but I'm just doing the seams, not the installations.

The carpet I was working with was a woven material. When you brush it on it's soaked in just like putting water on a paper towel. The lady did not like smelly things in the house and with contacts in it even if I applied it outside and let it totally dry, it would remain stinky for quite a while. I ended up using hot glue. It was amazing it dried in just a few seconds. It would be a wee bit difficult doing a countertop with hot glue.

I got a hot glue that would work for counter tops. You spray it on and stays sticky for about 20 minutes. I'm sure it is like the stuff that is on wood banding. I never thought of using it for that as I do banding when making some of my projects.

 

[highup]

You just need a hundred watt gun so it can keep up with what you're doing.
This is the tip I made for mine. It started out as one of those stubby oval-shaped tips. I was able to get it round again and it was just about perfect for a piece of copper tubing.
I drilled a hole in a piece of steel, then put the section of copper tubing in my drill. I forced the copper into the conical depression that I made in the steel and that squeezed the tubing inward to make a smaller hole. The tip works fantastic. I made it for a job a few years ago when I had to wrap the bullnose on a set of stairs with some short nap Milikan carpet. The tip fits up inside areas where a regular glue tip can't fit.
I'm sure that someone makes a tip like this but I haven't seen one.

 

[DarisMulkin]

You just need a hundred watt gun so it can keep up with what you're doing.
This is the tip I made for mine. It started out as one of those stubby oval-shaped tips. I was able to get it round again and it was just about perfect for a piece of copper tubing.
I drilled a hole in a piece of steel, then put the section of copper tubing in my drill. I forced the copper into the conical depression that I made in the steel and that squeezed the tubing inward to make a smaller hole. The tip works fantastic. I made it for a job a few years ago when I had to wrap the bullnose on a set of stairs with some short nap Milikan carpet. The tip fits up inside areas where a regular glue tip can't fit.
I'm sure that someone makes a tip like this but I haven't seen one.

I don't know if I would show that tip. It looks almost identical to the
Taylor repair tip that I have used for years to reburl Berbers. And I'm sure they hold the patent on on it. A person in CFI did some minor changes to the Orcon seam sealing tip and was sued and lost the case for patent infringement. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy in my opinion.

 

[Mark Brown]

It looks like the same tip that came with my PAM gun, so I would not be too worried.

 

[highup]

I don't know if I would show that tip. It looks almost identical to the
Taylor repair tip that I have used for years to reburl Berbers. And I'm sure they hold the patent on on it. A person in CFI did some minor changes to the Orcon seam sealing tip and was sued and lost the case for patent infringement. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy in my opinion.

So I'm going to have to sell you a few cases of these under the table?
Maybe I can relabel your shipment as golf cleats so nobody gets suspicious.