I'm calling it. Laminate is dead.

[LeePelletier]

I'm not stranger to controversy so here it is: Laminate is dead.

Supporting arguments:

1. Cheap Chinese imports have killed the market. After enough people got burned with the Chinese junk, they assume the issue is "laminate" and not "Chinese junk". I love the QuickStep product (have it in our office, actually, in the rainbow slate), but people keep thinking it won't hold up.

2. Today's vinyl floors look so awesome. Quality vinyl plank is cheaper than quality laminate. Vinyl plank is cheaper to install. It doesn't have that clack, clack, clack noise. It can be wet-mopped without damaging the floor. Vinyl is less susceptible to water damage than laminate. Seriously, vinyl plank is "it" compared to laminate.

3. And the cost of laminate? Why? When you compare it to other flooring (quality laminate, not the junk the Home Centers like peddling), I'm left wondering why someone would buy laminate.

I'm now putting on my fireman's suit, preparing for the flame war.

 

[Floorist]

I agree with you. A lot of it is getting ripped out because it failed.

 

[havasu]

Not knowing much about vinyl, is it also a floating floor and can it be click locked together similar to a laminate?

 

[happyhours]

havasu, yes it is and it looks and works well.

I don't think laminate is quiet thru yet but Lee, you make a good point.

 

[Ernesto]

I remember bout oh 15 years ago a well know woven carpet guy said the same thing to me. LOL

Vinyl click plank has its issues too. The pre-glued ones even worse. Plus its colder underfoot than laminate over concrete. A laminate with an attached cushion is quieter than one without unless you use soundsolutions or likewise.

People dont do due diligence in researching flooring products and instead of buying less and a better quality they want the whole damned house done at once to suit their bare bones budget.

I say lets move them up to cork!

 

[havasu]

I'm still actively shopping for 1320 sq feet of flooring for my vacation home. I almost pulled the trigger today on a laminate that Costco has on sale this month, which makes it about $1.19 a square foot. Per my measurements, I'll need 55 boxes to complete the flooring, but there are no weights on the box, so I don't think it will all fit into a 1/2 ton truck. Sorry, I don't want to derail this thread, but I'm paying close attention to what you experts advise.

 

[rugaddict]

im putting in tons of glue down vinyl plank---mostly congoleum endurance plank and mohawk prospects---getting a few calls to inspect floating vinyl plank failures---my laminate tools are getting all dusty

 

[Floorist]

From the very first, I called laminate "temporary flooring".

 

[Ken]

No way! Laminate is 90% of my business right now and they keep making improvements. I see where youre trying to go with this but not a chance, sorry boys. It aint happening.

 

[highup]

No way! Laminate is 90% of my business right now and they keep making improvements. I see where youre trying to go with this but not a chance, sorry boys. It aint happening.

Improvements stopped when the fully glued T&G changed to click and lock. I have seen 25 year old Pergo Original that looks like it was installed yesterday. It's still ugly tho.
With fully glued seams water can't get in there and swell the edges............ even the chip board Pergo Original edges.

 

[LeePelletier]

I remember bout oh 15 years ago a well know woven carpet guy said the same thing to me. LOL

Vinyl click plank has its issues too. The pre-glued ones even worse. Plus its colder underfoot than laminate over concrete. A laminate with an attached cushion is quieter than one without unless you use soundsolutions or likewise.

People dont do due diligence in researching flooring products and instead of buying less and a better quality they want the whole damned house done at once to suit their bare bones budget.

I say lets move them up to cork!

Ernesto hits a valid point. Sometimes the issue is people wanting to do an entire home with a barebones budget.

In defense of laminate: if you want the look of an exotic wood without the price, a quality laminate is a great way to go. We have a rainbow slate laminate in our office (Quickstep), and it has held up great, looks great, and doesn't have the issues that real slate has (such as pieces sheering off, or trip hazard).

On the other hand, there is so much garbage out there it is just staggering. I've seen people have laminate damaged because someone put a damp (not wet) towel on the floor for a little bit, and the laminate all bubbled up. This is not an issue people are experiencing with other flooring types. And there is soooo much of this trash out there.

Havasu, I'm going to suggest that laminate at $1.19 per square foot isn't even close to a quality you will be happy with long term. I mentioned Quick Step, but they even have a "classic" collection which is a cheapened version of Quick Step. Figure about $3 to $6 per square foot (materials only) for something you will be happy with for a period of time. And if you are that high, take a look at real wood.

But seriously look at the vinyl plank products too. Vinyl has come a long way. Remember that cheap wood grain sticker on the sides of station wagons? Yeah, that looked cheap. Vinyl used to look like that. But not anymore. Not by a long shot. I'm sure you have been in many businesses that had vinyl plank on their floor and you thought they had an actual wood floor. It's looking that good. The cost is reasonable, the installation is reasonable, and the maintenance is quite low.

Part of the problem in the industry is people do go to home centers and warehouse clubs to get flooring. There is no one to help them select proper products and the only information you can get is from someone who can tell you only that what you are looking at is a "good" product.

But it's not. It's the road to disappointment and wasted money.

 

[havasu]

Thanks Lee, but spending $6 a foot for flooring in a vacation home with lots of dirty feet would be out of the question. I guess I'll continue with my search for the perfect flooring, but it seems like it is just not available.

 

[Ernesto]

Vinyl plank also needs more floor prep to prevent telegraphing. It disengages easily (click) in pivot points and the locking mechanism breaks easily if there is vertical movement.

The Grip Strip vinyl planks seperate easily with climate change. Once that happens the grip strip is NOT going back together. And the manufacturers will not address weight limits of appliances and furniture. It is not strong enough to move under nearly as heavy objests. AND..... many also will not address length of runs width wise or length wise.

You can get a vinyl on top of an HDF core just like laminate. But the topical moisture intrusion into the seams causing swelling is still an issue. Quite a few manufacturers do some water proofing of the edges but not nearly good enough IMO.

Also, the beveled edges of laminate swell very easily due to the core exposure. All they do is throw some stain on the edges. I've done tests with drops of water on these edges while installing many of them and have seen edge swelling in a matter of 15 minutes.

 

[Ken]

Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely a hardwood guy but considering the price point it's still a good alternative.

 

[havasu]

If I wasn't so lazy, I'd build up my sub floor with a concrete backer board for strength, then install the ceramic plank tile throughout. I love that stuff.

 

[Ernesto]

If I wasn't so lazy, I'd build up my sub floor with a concrete backer board for strength, then install the ceramic plank tile throughout. I love that stuff.

Yea, good idea. No HVAC has to be on for that stuff, well it is good for the structure and subfloor anyways.

Backer board on the other hand adds zero strength for vertical movement. Your gonna need 2 layers of 3/4 inch subfloor. Better screw the $hit out of it though if theres going to be huge temp and rh swings like we do in the desert. Ceramic tile over a wood/wood composite is not at all invulnerable.
Probablty one of the hardest installations to do, even more than hardwood. Then throw in a soft stone like marble or travertine, ouy!

 

[Incognito]

I wouldn't recommend laminate anywhere to anyone for any purpose.

The best of the best is WAY too expensive for a good Formica countertop material laid on the floor.

The worst of the worst------.79 a foot or anywheres NEAR that range is pure garbage and will quickly wind up in a landfill.

 

[highup]

I have yet to be asked to to a product like Konnecto. How does it compare as far as installation prices? A local guy told be he was getting paid .50 sq ft to do some apartments. I can't imagine any vinyl plank type material being less than $1.00

 

[Ernesto]

I have yet to be asked to to a product like Konnecto. How does it compare as far as installation prices? A local guy told be he was getting paid .50 sq ft to do some apartments. I can't imagine any vinyl plank type material being less than $1.00

If you have to go through the same motions and substrate specs it should be the same as any other floor like laminate. My cork floaters are more than laminate, like double, same as wood only because they are more time consuming.

 

[Nick]

When the Side joints on Quick Step swell from to much R/h And temp, Do they shrink again when the site conditions return to normal ?