Installers You Have Trained.

[Ernesto]

By training I mean on the job apprentices.

Looking back, of all the installers you trained to do carpet tile wood whatever, what's the percentage you believe who came out at the top of the heap? I mean like consistently R II DII quality and above?

How about the ones who you knew would turn into hacks? Then teach other hacks?

What I am essentially looking for is, How many hacks are you responsible for vs high quality?

Then, many of thise might have trained installers like themselves?

 

[FloorMaven]

It's like being Catholic but never going church.

 

[DarisMulkin]

There is one guy that I have trained that is still in the business. He is a definitely Hack, but aren't we all to some extent? There is one guy that I work with that has trained me some and me him some. He is so fussy that I'm the only one he will work with, we have known and worked together since the 70's. We do have our moments on how to do things though. I'm more lenient than he is.

Daris

 

[Ken]

I have one guy working for me whom I trained well enough to complete his own jobs up to my standards but he only installs laminate, nothing too difficult. I use him to take care of jobs that I dont want to lose but dont necessarily want to do myself. I havent taught him anything about wood though. Ive had helpers that Ive trained well enough to do their own installs but they have moved on to bigger and better. One is a pro BMX rider, another is a Surgical Tech/drummer in a hardcore band, another started his own web design business, etc. All good kids though, no hacks here as far as I can remember.

 

[Floorist]

I trained one that I think would do a good job, but unfortunately he lost his eyesight at age 34 due to diabetes. He had to quit installing in his early twenties because of the same disease.

 

[Nick]

Good Question . When you find out let me know. I trained a ton years ago .

 

[highup]

There is one guy that I have trained that is still in the business. He is a definitely Hack, but aren't we all to some extent? There is one guy that I work with that has trained me some and me him some. He is so fussy that I'm the only one he will work with, we have known and worked together since the 70's. We do have our moments on how to do things though. I'm more lenient than he is.

Daris

I think your making all that up............... I've never worked with you and you know it!

 

[highup]

I've never helped train anyone. I either worked for my Grandpa, my brother, and once on my own, I've never had anyone work with me.
That might change tho. With all the crappy seams guys are making, and the restretches I have been asked to do, I think I'm about to be asked to spread my knowledge and teach the guys how to install carpet a little better.
I think if they are pressured to spend more time making the job come out nice, they will also want better pay rates.................... which I think is 1/2 the reason they fly through jobs too fast in the first place.
Tell me this. If you were given another $1.00 or $1.50 per yard for doing better work out of a shop, would you slow down a tiny bit to seal seams and be sure the carpet is stretched in tight? ......or continue on and do everything the same way you were doing it before?
I know I'm asking this to the wrong people. The guys that don't give a RA don't even know that there are flooring forums.

 

[Roland]

In the 41 years I have to say the biggest hack is the one I started out as his trainee. Once I went out on my own an started going to classes and started learning the proper way I ended up taking all his contract's. Since then he has been in and out of the buiesness. For the one's I have trained , has not been that many, when they started with me they stayed. I would say two but both left before they where ready thinking they where going to make the big money. Both are not doing it any more.

 

[Floorist]

In the 41 years I have to say the biggest hack is the one I started out as his trainee. Once I went out on my own an started going to classes and started learning the proper way I ended up taking all his contract's. Since then he has been in and out of the buiesness. For the one's I have trained , has not been that many, when they started with me they stayed. I would say two but both left before they where ready thinking they where going to make the big money. Both are not doing it any more.

I would agree. The worst hack I ever knew is the one who got me started. The longer I worked with him, the more I realized how little he knew. So I quit and went to work with several others. I tried to pick up the best from each one. To be honest, most of the old timers were not very good.

 

[highup]

In the 41 years I have to say the biggest hack is the one I started out as his trainee. Once I went out on my own an started going to classes and started learning the proper way I ended up taking all his contract's. Since then he has been in and out of the buiesness. For the one's I have trained , has not been that many, when they started with me they stayed. I would say two but both left before they where ready thinking they where going to make the big money. Both are not doing it any more.

Grandpa wasn't a hack. His work is how I learned to do what I do. A fantastic teacher.
I however, during my first real year working with him, (1975ish) I read to him from a roll of seam tape, that "Roberts will not guarantee our seam tape unless the seams are sealed with latex". I recall them showing a crappy image of a seam edge literally being swabbed with latex.
(jute back than)

From that point on, I have always sealed seams.................. and we started sealing them all from that point on. Wow, I taught Gramps something? I felt pretty good that he started doing that from that day on. I was 17 just years old. It was the first time I really felt I was actually helping him.
When I first worked with him a few years earlier before getting out of school, hand sewing was pretty much history. Sewing was still done by a couple of guys locally, because they didn't believe in the newfangled seam technology.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Uhh Rusty , you are one of the old timers!!

High sure we have worked together , you just don't remember, I was that cute kid you couldn't stand.

Daris

 

[highup]

Uhh Rusty , you are one of the old timers!!

High sure we have worked together , you just don't remember, I was that cute kid you couldn't stand.

Daris

I always liked ya.............. I was just doing that so you would learn to stand on your own two feet one day. I think you turned out pretty darn good.

 

[Incognito]

I'm working today and this whole summer on a job for a foreman who was once my BESTEST apprentice ever. His (our) boss, the "general shop superintendent" of our company was also once one of my apprentices, Although I would never claim to be his Master. The guy above that guy wasn't quite my "apprentice" but I did train him at his father's request on installing resilient floors. So that guy is now the shop owner. He was a carpet layer and Dad asked me to train him to do my job. Why not?

Besides that no less than half a dozen of my apprentices are now top guys running work at other union shops or self employed running their own non union crews. They call me now and again when they need help.

Tons and tons of "hacks" along the way. None of them matter to me in any way-------I don't judge them because they SUCK at what we do. They're just not cut out to do it so that's that. I'm still casual friends with some of those guys who couldn't cut the mustard.......or even hand around to lick the jar.

That's besides the fact.

 

[Ken]

Wow, it so funny you guys said that. The guy I worked for in my first job is the epitomy of hacktackular (i gotta copyright that quick). No moisture tests, no vapor barrier on concrete, buys cheap materials from China, doesn't answer callbacks, etc. A buddy of mine still works for him and we just shake our heads, lol. Super nice guy though.

 

[highup]

hacktackular

Oh. I like that one. Suppose they attend Hacktomania every year to see how much lower they can get?

 

[Ken]

I hear the food is hackolicious.

 

[highup]

I just recalled something....... My brother and I did all the work for a small store in the late 70's to mid 80's. Business picked up, and the owner found two other brothers to lighten the load.
We soon discovered that we were doing all of the vinyl installations, and they did none.
My brother complained, and the shop owner said: If you will show them how to make a pattern and some of the finer points, I'll split up the vinyl installations.
These guys only had experience with track homes and one piece installations with no cabinets.

We had an ideal job to show them a simple pattern installation so they could learn. A very simple layout, and it didn't even have a tub or shower, just a vanity and toilet. Bathrooms do not get any simpler.

I roll out some paper and show them various methods of transferring the measurements from the walls onto the paper. .....bar scribe, dividers, and a square or straight edge.
I didn't make a full pattern of the room because it wasn't necessary on this one........... Not needing a full pattern was another thing that I thought might help them.
Once the vinyl was installed, the customer wanted it do be covered in carpet.... Yup....... install vinyl, the cover it with carpet. They could have just painted the floor if they wanted it sealed. Oh well, work is work.

OK, I made the pattern and they watched. I then showed them how I transferred the lines and measurements from the paper onto the vinyl. All was fine up to this point.
Upon laying the vinyl into the bathroom, it was exactly 3" shy of the vanity's toe kick.
I had measured from the wrong side of my straight edge. I had only rolled out a single 3' wide strip of pattern paper to show them that you didn't always need to make a full pattern of the entire room.
Man................. I was the hack that day and those two comical brothers never let me live that one down. I didn't have egg on my face.............. it was a 6 egg omelet.

 

[Ernesto]

When I started I had to work with Ole Sarge, a retired AF master Sargent. He learned floors from some old Norwegians which he never let me forget and was constantly mentioning them. sigh

Sarge was the man our boss chose to train apprentices or helpers if you call it that. He had zero patience with people who did not want to learn correct installation methods. After about a year I was thrown out on the deep end to do my own installs with a fellow installer who had the same amount of training. Man did we hack up a few jobs. lol

After a few years Ole Sarge left and I got stuck training new help. I had similar patience as sarge and many helpers just quit. Maybe a handful made it to installer. Mind you this was not a union apprenticeship. Just getting the basics down then thrown to the sharks. ha ha

I finally got sick of training installers because it took time and I was not getting paid for it so I just went out on jobs by myself. Still there and I like it. Once in awhile I would drag out one of my boys in the summers or on their vacation time off from schools. Both were the best helpers I ever had. But I did NOT want my kids becoming installers or having anything to do with this industry. Now the oldest got his masters, married and both have jobs in Phoenix. The youngest is just starting college. Yay!

 

[LeePelletier]

I think everyone has their strengths. I know good installers that have no idea how to do oriental runners on stairs. It's not unusual that I have to train them how to mitre and cap oriental runners. Their background is often commercial work.

Then I have an installer who was just great with fussy work like oriental runners and borders, who would fail miserably with commercial work because he is just way too slow.

People I have trained generally are good installers, but that's mainly because I'm training them from the ground up. I'm usually training someone who already installs, but needs to learn the finer points of woven carpet, oriental runners, borders, mitres, capping, and so forth.