Laminate Flooring Depressions

[Ernesto]

I agree Maven, it is a disfunctional relationship at best between the builders and flooring contractors. IMHO it is the builders responsibility to have the subfloor ready when he calls in for any flooring installation. Either he or his super should check the dang sub-floor directly after installation as he never really knows what flooring is going to go down.

Does not matter if it is carpet or hardwood, it should be flat enough so there is minimal prep work for the flooring installers. Also whom ever measured for the flooring should also check as well.

All to many times it is overlooked and the installer takes the rap because he needs to buy Christmas presents or maybe just food and rent and decides to risk it.

I'd really like to know is what the temp and rh was at time oif installation and if it was properly acclimated. This is key to any installation.

I know of one place here that does ZERO acclimation and they run ads all day long....The Happy Home People. They also make their installers sign a contract saying they must fix anything within like 5 days or they get charged for it. And they hold monies from their paycheck to hold even after they leave.

 

[FloorMaven]

IMHO it is the builders responsibility to have the subfloor ready when he calls in for any flooring installation. Either he or his super should check the dang sub-floor directly after installation as he never really knows what flooring is going to go down.

It really depends on what type of prior agreement exists between the parties. I know here the builders found that they could man a kid with an angle grinder much cheaper than paying a pro to flatten the subfloor.

Also whom ever measured for the flooring should also check as well.

In tracts they usually don't physically measure each house. They use the take-off from the original model plans.

I'd really like to know is what the temp and rh was at time oif installation and if it was properly acclimated. This is key to any installation.

Agreed but no one will be giving that info any time soon, plus doesn't mannington claim no acclimation needed? Since the house has yet to be occupied I doubt much has changed with the climate within. Plus, with a half inch thick product like this its pretty difficult to see deflection unless the subfloor is way out of tolerance.

 

[Ernesto]

Agreed but no one will be giving that info any time soon, plus doesn't mannington claim no acclimation needed? Since the house has yet to be occupied I doubt much has changed with the climate within. Plus, with a half inch thick product like this its pretty difficult to see deflection unless the subfloor is way out of tolerance.

Depends......

• The storage area must be climate controlled with a temperature range between 65°F
and 90°F (18°C and 32°C) and a relative humidity not exceeding 65%.
• Do not stack pallets more than 3 high. Store pallets so they are protected from fork lifts
or other traffic. Protect package corners during storage.
• Always handle cartons carefully. Do not puncture packaging. Cartons should not be
opened until time of installation.
• Laminate panels may be cut from the back when using a circular open-toothed carbidetipped
saw or from the face when using a handsaw.
Jobsite Conditions
• Under normal conditions Mannington Laminate flooring does not need to be acclimated
to the job site. If extreme temperature and humidity variations exist during storage or
transportation, acclimating the laminate flooring to jobsite conditions is recommended.
• In all cases, jobsite temperature should be at least 65°F and no greater than 100°F and
the relative humidity should not exceed 65%. The temperature and humidity must be
controlled and maintained within the ranges described above for the life of the laminate
flooring.
• If the job site is more than 900 sq.ft. and has a panel length and width of more than 30
feet, additional expansion joints will be required. Mannington T-Moldings should be used.

 

[FloorMaven]

Basically speaking, the post-production floor has to live perpetually between 65°-90° & ≤ 65% rh. My place is at 61° right now. I guess I couldn't own a laminate floor.

 

[cabayarea]

Thank you both btw. I am going to report back as to what the subcontractor says. I think the point was made in which - regardless of whose fault it is - they just need to figure it out and fix my problem. Those politics should be their business, and all I need is the end result. I am planning to give them 10 days to figure it out and complete the work. Otherwise this really defeats the purpose of buying something new, because I am not supposed to be worried about these types of things - it's supposed to be new!

 

[Ernesto]

Basically speaking, the post-production floor has to live perpetually between 65°-90° & ≤ 65% rh. My place is at 61° right now. I guess I couldn't own a laminate floor.

Imagine the scenerio where the flooring jobsite is 100F and 65% rh. Install the floor, maybe it's a 3 or 5G system. The thing would literally fall apart when it got down to 65F and low rh.

 

[Darthygraham]

When your builder comes back, ask him to fix all the problems with flooring, and when he completes work, check if it is done properly.

 

[FloorMaven]

Imagine the scenerio where the flooring jobsite is 100F ...

I've installed many jobs at that temp. Nary a problem except with wilsonart that would shrink out from under the baseboard.

 

[cabayarea]

Hi guys, so here's the update:

Two weeks ago they came back and pulled out all flooring except the area for the fridge, and used a self-leveler which basically spread across 4 areas on the floor. They put the floor back in and it's no longer moving like it did.

However, the fridge came in a week ago, and when it went in the fridge tilted to the right. I used a leveler and there is a slope that is going down to the right (therefore the tilt), and I measured the slope there was about a 1/4 of an inch difference.

The builder tells me to use the prop under the fridge to prop it up; but this is a new home. I feel like I am being told to put padding under a wobbly table at a restaurant just so that I can keep the table level. You get what I mean?

I called Mannington and they said they didn't have any guidelines for sloping.

The leveler is showing the “bubble” to the far left of the middle.

Any thoughts?

 

[cabayarea]

so the builder and the installer came. the installer said that they only deal with "levels of flatness" and they used a 10-foot level to make sure things are level. still a bizarre thing to me.

 

[Incognito]

so the builder and the installer came. the installer said that they only deal with "levels of flatness" and they used a 10-foot level to make sure things are level. still a bizarre thing to me.

The installer has zero responsibility to LEVEL the substrate or the finished floor. He is required to make sure the substrate is flat enough so you don't deal with the problems you called "depressions."

The builder would be responsible for level conditions throughout the entire home for all the finished. I just don't know where your specific complaint falls on a scale of tolerance.

It's not really a flooring issue. Every fridge I recall ever handling has built in adjustments on the bottom you can easily work with a crescent wrench or channel locks.

 

[cabayarea]

got it. thank you. i appreciate that. that makes more sense to me when you explain it that way in terms of responsibility. the installer did already re-do the subfloor prep (because there was none before) and did put the floor back in without the "depressions".

so this would then be something i go back to the builder about then? i may go take some more photos so that folks here can get an idea.

i appreciate your help.

 

[Ernesto]

A sloping substrate can still be flat.

 

[cabayarea]

yes, i understand that now. but is it acceptable as the fridge is tilted? the fact that it's flooring in a new construction that bothers me most. so if it were your home, is this something reasonable that you would accept?

Thank you again for all your comments. I have learned a lot already from this thread.

 

[FloorMaven]

yes, i understand that now. but is it acceptable as the fridge is tilted? the fact that it's flooring in a new construction that bothers me most. so if it were your home, is this something reasonable that you would accept?

Thank you again for all your comments. I have learned a lot already from this thread.

The floor is out of level 1/4" in 3'? Under the fridge? In front of the fridge? Why didn't they remove the floor from the fridge area? In Arizona concrete subfloors need to be level to a tolerance of 1/4" in 12'. (Page 10) wood floor framing 1/2" in 12' (page 6) I would imagine if cali was different it would be less tolerant. Either way, unacceptable.



http://www.azroc.gov/Acrobat/Public/Workmanship_Standards.pdf

 

[cabayarea]

Yes. That is correct. I even did under 6' and it's about the same. I measured the area in front of the fridge. I didn't move the fridge to measure under it.

I was trying to find a similar Workmanship Standards document for California but couldn't find it. I will call the contractors board tomorrow to see whether there is such regulation. I did try to prop up the fridge today but the fridge doesn't seem to be stable as you can only lift up from the front. It's just becoming unreasonable.

I am also going to have the builder/installer put what they said in writing and see what they say. I think I've been more than patient with this flooring process and now I am just out of patience.

 

[FloorMaven]

I was trying to find a similar Workmanship Standards document for California but couldn't find it.

Cali has performance standards.
http://www.housefixit.com/faqs/the-...ial-construction-frequently-asked-questions#1

 

[cabayarea]

Cali has performance standards.
http://www.housefixit.com/faqs/the-...ial-construction-frequently-asked-questions#1

Thanks so much!

 

[Ernesto]

You got a Sub-Zero in there or what?

 

[cabayarea]

You got a Sub-Zero in there or what?

Nope. Can't afford that one. It's a KitchenAid.