Net fitting Marmo

[highup]

Jon, if I did vinyl on a regular basis and was 30 or 40, I'd try another method if one was shown to me.
Have patterned virtually every vinyl installation I've ever done. I'm used to scribing..... With steel dividers. If I did 600 vinyl installations via a pattern, and was totally comfortable with my methods...... and I foresaw 3 more vinyl installations in my career, do you think it wise to start doing a new method?
.....well, your wrong
My main concerns were not how to pattern sheet goods. My concerns were making an accurate piece of goods, only to have it shrink or grow because this was Marmoleum. I've probably done one Armstrong and 3 Marmoleum jobs in the past 25 years. I'm not comfortable with the material since I have so little experience with it. That's what I was really after. 25 years ago, I did my first Marmoleum job. It was a self coved bathroom. No seams except for the outside corner. It fit like a glove. Scared the crap out of me tho. That wasn't a fun job as far as a learning curve for Marmo. The hallway was a hardwood floor and the Marmo butted flush fit to it. That flush fit actually helped when lowering it into the adhesive because my material had a lineup mark there, and butting to the wood prevented the material from moving.
Don't think for a second the patterning advice is not appreciated. These conversations are good because the will continue helping anyone that comes across this conversation. All is good Jon.

 

[highup]

Jon, the reason I pattern vinyl is because I was taught that way.
You mentioned "centering a room"
That's why I prefer patterning. Makes it easy co center a toilet, avoid tapered gout line near a wall, or even "straighten" an unsquare room. I can't freehand to save my life. Never was taught that

 

[highup]

Looks great Randy. I have only done 1 marmo job in 34 years. It was a couple bathrooms.
The carpet one store that I do work had someone interested in a kitchen install, it looks like they are going with the 12” x 36” locking tile now.

Don, was that Armstrong?
Same color I coved in the bathroom I did 25 years ago. Yum!

 

[highup]

Looks good by the way. I hope you used a super thin straightedge and not a square.

 

[Don Monfils]

I’m pretty sure it was forbo.
It was quite a while ago.
Nope ,I don’t own a super thin straight edge either.
I just looked my square is right in the pic, busted

 

[Jon]

Looks great Randy. I have only done 1 marmo job in 34 years. It was a couple bathrooms.
The carpet one store that I do work had someone interested in a kitchen install, it looks like they are going with the 12” x 36” locking tile now.

Looks good Don especially if you cut up to the skirting boards as I cant quite see from the size of the check outs around the door frames

 

[Don Monfils]

Thanks, to be honest with you I can’t remember if the baseboard installed before or after the Lino. Pretty bad quality pics,from a old cell phone.

 

[highup]

Thanks, to be honest with you I can’t remember if the baseboard installed before or after the Lino. Pretty bad quality pics,from a old cell phone.

Lest just say the baseboards were on. Makes for a better story.
....besides, your capable of fitting one that way.

 

[Jon]

I believe a lot of areas in the USA talking to sales staff at Surfaces and through other flooring sites are cutting neatly into the skirting boards
https://kevmor.com.au/trimmers/904-armstrong-s66-wall-trimmer.htmlAnother Is why would a factory make a product which is never going to be used?I belive Armstrong USA used to make them

AND I know the will not work on Marmo or do around door frames along with one needs to free hand corners so that one can get the tool started
I have a couple of them of which they are very good on longish straight walls with most vinyls

 

[Incognito]

I believe a lot of areas in the USA talking to sales staff at Surfaces and through other flooring sites are cutting neatly into the skirting boards
https://kevmor.com.au/trimmers/904-armstrong-s66-wall-trimmer.html

That won't work with linoleum.

 

[Jon]

That won't work with linoleum.

I added more and you were tooo quick
You should be in bed

 

[highup]

You mentioned using a different paper that was affected by moisture. I fit one once with red rosin paper. The job was 2 sheets of Armstrong Designer Solarian. I trimmed the seam then notched the second half. Made one large pattern to do the entire room in one shot.
It was net fit, no base shoe. I undercut a brick fireplace hearth and two door casings.
I layed plastic out on the garage floor the night before because that was the only place large enough. I made a pattern the next morning, then played theaterisl out, cut the seam and notched the other side then taped the pieces together.
I brought my pattern out, taped it in place and quickly cut it out.
.......anyone gon to sleep yet

Long story short.... The complicated side fit perfect, but the second piece was almost 1/4" too wide.
Never trusted that paper again. The first sheet was over 23 feet long, the second was probably 16.
I used to be more gutsy.
Job ended up looking fantastic.
I just couldn't believe the paper could bove that much in 12 feet.
The length didn't move hardly at all.

 

[highup]

That won't work with linoleum.

I added more and you were tooo quick
You should be in bed

 

[Jon]

You mentioned using a different paper that was affected by moisture. I fit one once with red rosin paper. The job was 2 sheets of Armstrong Designer Solarian. I trimmed the seam then notched the second half. Made one large pattern to do the entire room in one shot.
It was net fit, no base shoe. I undercut a brick fireplace hearth and two door casings.
I layed plastic out on the garage floor the night before because that was the only place large enough. I made a pattern the next morning, then played theaterisl out, cut the seam and notched the other side then taped the pieces together.
I brought my pattern out, taped it in place and quickly cut it out.
.......anyone gon to sleep yet

Long story short.... The complicated side fit perfect, but the second piece was almost 1/4" too wide.
Never trusted that paper again. The first sheet was over 23 feet long, the second was probably 16.
I used to be more gutsy.
Job ended up looking fantastic.
I just couldn't believe the paper could bove that much in 12 feet.
The length didn't move hardly at all.

I mentioned using a thin paper being effected by moisture just to show why I prefer using thicker paper is the thicker you go the more stable the paper is .It would surprise me your paper or flooring would shrink more in width than in length
Years ago products like Solarian or others with similar backings we would pre shrink by rolling the roll inside out on longer lengths, cut out first drop then glue about 2 inches from the join, okay we used a latex type glue, I would never think about cutting out both drops especially with a matching pattern and cutting one seam and try to notch out where the join is going to go the next drop in case the first drop doesnt quite go where expected.
Once happy with the first drop make a pattern of the second drop, place in place, glue then double cut the seam

 

[highup]

Jon, I had used that paper on many patterns that I had cut out over a period of years, but the paper was always inside and I always cut the material inside so everything was stable. The long cut in this room was fit using a ballpoint pen and a square, like you do with your straight edge. It was absolutely going to fit close to perfect.... and it did. The second side was maybe 16 ft long and it was net fitst for five and a half feet and at it's other end it fit undercut a brick fireplace hearth that I had undercut with a diamond blade, so I had a good eighth of an inch of wiggle room on that end. The non seam side of the second cut was about a 12 ft span that would be covered by carpet metals so it didn't need to be fit perfectly to anything. It only needed to be fit at both ends and the pattern of course would line up because I cut both materials out at the same time, using those notches.
This material, this pattern material, changed size when I took it out into the garage and it was the wrong time of year to do that anyway but this was a learning experience. It might have been 60° out there and I had covered the garage floor with some heavy plastic before I unrolled the vinyl.
This pattern paper absolutely changed shape in width and it moved a lot causing the material to fit way too tight...... This was because of moisture outside.
As proof that it expanded, I recalled making a pattern for a piece of underlayment one time.
It was a very small piece 3 ft by three and a half and after making the pattern I took the material outside and taped it to my plywood and immediately cut it out. The Sun was shining on my pattern paper and the humidity was low I recall a beautiful day outside.
I took that piece of plywood inside and it was a full eighth of an inch narrower than the way I had cut it.
I had cut the underlayment 1/8 short just to ease the installation of it, it was between a cabinet and the face of a dishwasher. It didn't fit with 1/16 gap on each side, it fit with a 1/8 inch gap on each side.
That had me scratching my head because there's no way you could screw up that bad in a piece that's only 3 ft wide.
I took my pattern paper over to the roll of pattern paper and it had shrunk in with a bunch. It's only 3 ft wide so how could the paper shrink that much? Well, it did.
Okay so it shrunk in the heat and bright sunlight and the job that I was previously talking about became wider when I use the material outside in an enclosed garage in springtime guessing 60° and fairly high humidity. If the pattern paper grew 1/16 of an inch on each of the 3 ft rolls that made up the pattern, that's 1/16 times 4 which equals 1/4 inch.
That job was the last time I ever trusted that paper. The paper that I'm using now is a craft paper which is three layers thick the top and bottom are paper and the center is a very minute layer of asphalt. The asphalt doesn't grow and shrink like that red rosin paper did.
I was way too confident when making that large pattern and cutting two pieces at once but in the end I had plenty of time to retrim the second piece and the job ended up absolutely flawless.
You might even recall that job. It was over 20 years ago.
In the center of this long kitchen was an island with a cooktop and Jenn Air fan which is bolted to the floor. I carefully measured its location and removed the fan and unscrewed the island. Otherwise I would have had to lay the material in shorter 6 ft sections. The same locations laid out terrible, doing it that way.
I got real gutsy on that job but like I said it turned out absolutely beautiful and the customer was thrilled.
You have to think outside of the box every once in awhile.

 

[Jon]

Looks good by the way. I hope you used a super thin straightedge and not a square.

Just so I have this correct you hold the square with oneside against the wall then mark the opposite side with a pen?

 

[highup]

Yup.
When transferring the pattern, I put the square along my line and then I check it by putting my pen back on the line to be sure it's an exactly the same spot as where I drew it. I don't recall using a pencil for much because they're wildly inaccurate and change shape so quickly.

 

[highup]

Something just came upon me....
If I'm installing the marmoleum as if it was a baseboard, with cove cap, is there any reason I would need marmoleum adhesive to install the Marmoleum on the plywood that I installed on the walls?
I'm wondering if it might be easier to just use cove base adhesive. I'm thinking would be easier to apply out of a caulking gun, even if I use the correct trowel to spread it on the wall. I'm thinking a tiny bit of clear epoxy on the outside corners, there's three of them. There are two sections 6 ft by 4 in, three sections about 3 ft long by 4 in and a couple of very short pieces.
Question is, is there any reason I need to use marmoleum adhesive for this application?
To be sure the floor perimeter is sealed, I plan to put an 1/8 inch sure so bead of caulking at the base of where the marmoleum will go on to the wall so once it's squished in place, that will seal the floor for when they mop or in case there's an overflow.
Initially I was thinking of caulking the perimeter of the floor after everything was installed, with a small bead of sealant such as unsanded grout caulk.
Now I'm thinking I can put sealant on the floor prior to putting the wall pieces on. Have to rolling it on, the floor will be sealed behind the marmoleum instead of putting a bead that is visible on the face of it.
Anyhow, I'll figure that out tomorrow. I'm just curious if I can use an acrylic cove base adhesive on the walls instead of Marmoleum adhesive.

 

[Jon]

Something just came upon me....
If I'm installing the marmoleum as if it was a baseboard, with cove cap, is there any reason I would need marmoleum adhesive to install the Marmoleum on the plywood that I installed on the walls?
I'm wondering if it might be easier to just use cove base adhesive. I'm thinking would be easier to apply out of a caulking gun, even if I use the correct trowel to spread it on the wall. I'm thinking a tiny bit of clear epoxy on the outside corners, there's three of them. There are two sections 6 ft by 4 in, three sections about 3 ft long by 4 in and a couple of very short pieces.
Question is, is there any reason I need to use marmoleum adhesive for this application?
To be sure the floor perimeter is sealed, I plan to put an 1/8 inch sure so bead of caulking at the base of where the marmoleum will go on to the wall so once it's squished in place, that will seal the floor for when they mop or in case there's an overflow.
Initially I was thinking of caulking the perimeter of the floor after everything was installed, with a small bead of sealant such as unsanded grout caulk.
Now I'm thinking I can put sealant on the floor prior to putting the wall pieces on. Have to rolling it on, the floor will be sealed behind the marmoleum instead of putting a bead that is visible on the face of it.
Anyhow, I'll figure that out tomorrow. I'm just curious if I can use an acrylic cove base adhesive on the walls instead of Marmoleum adhesive.

I would stick with the marmo glue as its probably "thicker" I use a bit of carpet to apply the glue to cove areas
Should not need sealant and I am not programed to use a sealant as there will be no gaps
Also did you try mixing up marmo scrappings, dust with a wood type glue?

 

[highup]

I would stick with the marmo glue as its probably "thicker" I use a bit of carpet to apply the glue to cove areas
Should not need sealant and I am not programed to use a sealant as there will be no gaps
Also did you try mixing up marmo scrappings, dust with a wood type glue?

I wasn't expecting the sealant to fill gaps, I'm trying to do overkill in the case of flooding. Besides that it would be easier to clean the sealant off the floor should it squish out when I roll against the wall. Grout caulk would be much easier to wipe off than the adhesive.
Maybe I'll just use the forbo adhesive and cut off a section from a disposable trowel to make it easier to put on. Either that or disposable paintbrush to blob it on there. I'm still thinking some epoxy on the outside corners.