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Floorist

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Just ran across something that reminded me of them. Tried to work for them in KC in the late 80s. Most dishonest place I ever tried to work for. Had a job scheduled for them that had a couple flights of upholstered stairs. Carpet they tried to load on my van had the backing falling off. I tried to tell them that it would fail. They did not care. Said they would worry about it if the customer complained. I drove off. They went out of business later. They were based in Michigan. Just wondered if anyone else had encountered them.
 

DarisMulkin

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The only dealings I had with them was to pick up some carpet for a customer. Walked in the door and got in line to wait for my turn and found out I was in the ass chewing line for the installers. Most of the installers that worked for the was considered not the best by a long shot.
 

Incognito

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The only dealings I had with them was to pick up some carpet for a customer. Walked in the door and got in line to wait for my turn and found out I was in the ass chewing line for the installers. Most of the installers that worked for the was considered not the best by a long shot.
Something similar happened to me. I was working for a shop out of Rancho Cucamunga and they refused to mail the checks out because some fraud had happened. Anyway I go into the shop to collect my check and one of the owner hears my name and calls me into his office. He sits me down and starts reading me the riot act and I had no idea what he was even talking about. Turns out he had recently hired two guys with the same first name. I dont even remember the issues he had with the other guy it was just his TONE and bad attitude towards the hired help. Anyways, I could have put up with the bad attitude and moderate incompetence if they just would mail my check. There's zero chance I'm driving 25 miles past my house after work to go fetch my money. This was before direct deposit was the norm.
Speaking of which my main shop NEVER did direct deposit for whatever reasons. They mailed my check out for 30+ years. Whatever.
 
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Floorist

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Had a store in Kansas try to withhold 30% of our check in case of repairs. Turns out that is illegal in Kansas. They paid a big fine. We also got interest on what they held.
 

Incognito

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Had a store in Kansas try to withhold 30% of our check in case of repairs. Turns out that is illegal in Kansas. They paid a big fine. We also got interest on what they held.
Large commercial projects have retention built into the contracts. I know about that because certain retail stores we used to do would always follow up with an inspection right before the 1 year warranty was up before paying it off. So it's was common to go do some piddly repairs-------fixing VCT or cove base that didn't make it a year.

I love the story about the business owners who sold their shop within the family and forgot during the negotiations about the.............over HUNDRED GRAND outstanding in retention. Great way for a new owner to get off the ground running. There was actually a steady stream of checks coming in that whole first year.
 

JPfloor

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Retention is illegal in Kansas. Can't be put into a contract.
I can understand it's illegal to withhold or "retain" someone's paycheck. I know of lots of workrooms that did that. If's it not illegal it should be.

'm not sure it would be illegal for two companies or corporations or even individuals to come to an agreement where one provides a service and the other pays later. On commercial jobs nothing we did was ever paid in full upon completion. The standard was to be paid in three increments, 30, 60, 90 days apart.... And yea, on big jobs sometimes longer.... It was all figured into the bid. If you couldn't afford to wait for your money you couldn't afford to be in business... It's what kept a lot of smaller shops from bidding on bigger jobs. The manufactures know the deal with commercial work... They wait for their money too.... All part of the game.
 

Floorist

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I can understand it's illegal to withhold or "retain" someone's paycheck. I know of lots of workrooms that did that. If's it not illegal it should be.

'm not sure it would be illegal for two companies or corporations or even individuals to come to an agreement where one provides a service and the other pays later. On commercial jobs nothing we did was ever paid in full upon completion. The standard was to be paid in three increments, 30, 60, 90 days apart.... And yea, on big jobs sometimes longer.... It was all figured into the bid. If you couldn't afford to wait for your money you couldn't afford to be in business... It's what kept a lot of smaller shops from bidding on bigger jobs. The manufactures know the deal with commercial work... They wait for their money too.... All part of the game.
I did a few jobs for the state here. They took 90 days to pay. Wasn't really worth it to me, I could stay very busy and do jobs that paid when done. Could not charge the state as much as others either. Worked for the local housing authority for about ten years. Got paid every Friday for whatever bills I had turned in by Thursday. Nothing to move, mostly drop rooms.
 

highup

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I can understand it's illegal to withhold or "retain" someone's paycheck. I know of lots of workrooms that did that. If's it not illegal it should be.

'm not sure it would be illegal for two companies or corporations or even individuals to come to an agreement where one provides a service and the other pays later. On commercial jobs nothing we did was ever paid in full upon completion. The standard was to be paid in three increments, 30, 60, 90 days apart.... And yea, on big jobs sometimes longer.... It was all figured into the bid. If you couldn't afford to wait for your money you couldn't afford to be in business... It's what kept a lot of smaller shops from bidding on bigger jobs. The manufactures know the deal with commercial work... They wait for their money too.... All part of the game.
Shops here get over 50% upfront when the customer orders...maybe 75%.
That covers materials and installation.
THEY (the shops) can wait 30, 60, 90 days to get their cut on completion. When I'm finished, I get a check that week, not a month later. That's plain nuts.
Owners drive the Mercedes or BMW, while installers beg for checks. That's criminal.
 

JPfloor

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Shops here get over 50% upfront when the customer orders...maybe 75%.
That covers materials and installation.
THEY (the shops) can wait 30, 60, 90 days to get their cut on completion. When I'm finished, I get a check that week, not a month later. That's plain nuts.
Owners drive the Mercedes or BMW, while installers beg for checks. That's criminal.
I’m talking about the shops. Of course the guys on their knees are getting their paychecks. From the shop/workroom. Also sounds like you’re describing retail sales… Contract work is a whole different ball game. Holding companies that own 50 or 100 or more office buildings or a bunch of hotels are not paying upfront…They’re just not.
 

JPfloor

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We used to do a lot of work for GM here in Flint. They paid on the 10th of the month if I remember right. I never worked for anyone that withheld money for repairs later.
Yes, it’s been my experience that for small jobs or repairs large companies will pay promptly. Major renovations involving bids are a different story… They pay later.

Now I’m talking only from personal experience. Other parts of the country may have different policies, I don’t know. I can tell you for sure no shop in New York is getting paid promptly on large commercial work.
 
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Floorist

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The last 10 years I had 4 locally owned apt. complexes. Until then I did mostly residential. I did do several churches too. 90% of what I did was as an independent contractor. I charged more than the stores and always stayed booked 5-6 weeks ahead.
 

JPfloor

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I found that out the hard way. I did a hotel for one of the major chains and had to threaten a labor lein on the property. Took over 2 months of jacking them up.
Yup... They like to hold your money too.

We did a lot of hotel work over the years but never directly for the hotel. We worked for the landlord that owned the building that was leased by the hotel... Written into most leases was new carpet every 8 years... You wouldn't think it but most hotels, around here anyway, do not own the buildings.

Here's a Marriott where we did the ballrooms and corridors. I think around 15 years ago. Double stick Axminister with NO pattern repeat.... All the rolls were numbered and came with a beautiful color computer generated floor plan... Like the world's biggest jigsaw puzzle but with directions... Getting the rolls in order was a challenge... So was the installation... And yea, we had to wait for our money...

This one was part of a huge office complex all owned by the same company. I'm sure those billionaires and the hotel billionaires hung out at the same country club... :cool:
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Floorist

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I hated those huge jobs. Did an Oddfellows lodge once. Several hundred yards on one level. At least they left all the inside stuff like the seats to be installed after we were done. All the help I ever had on that and the huge churches was me and another installer. Could not find anyone who wanted to work. But, on direct glue, we would knock out 200-300 yards a day. We could do 120 yds of stretch-in on new floors in a 3 br house in about 6 hours. Probably why we stayed so busy. Lost track of my old partner in the mid 90s. His ex won't tell me where he is. I heard that he is a drunk now. I was always the oddball installer, seldom drank any alcohol, never smoked, never did drugs.
 

C.J.

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Have a plumber spend 3 days in your house and tell him when he hands you a bill, he'll get his check in 60 days. 😉

I hear ya. There were a few shops around town I never bothered to work for because they paid once a month. Most guys just don’t have the cash flow to bankroll things for 30, 60 or 90 days. You might not be covering weekly payroll for a crew but things like supplies and gas for an entire month still add up real quick. You gotta be good at budgeting your money to be able to pull that off and the average installer doesn’t even know their own numbers. Prolly why they aren’t driving a BMW or a Mercedes either.
 

JPfloor

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I hear ya. There were a few shops around town I never bothered to work for because they paid once a month. Most guys just don’t have the cash flow to bankroll things for 30, 60 or 90 days. You might not be covering weekly payroll for a crew but things like supplies and gas for an entire month still add up real quick. You gotta be good at budgeting your money to be able to pull that off and the average installer doesn’t even know their own numbers. Prolly why they aren’t driving a BMW or a Mercedes either.
Absolutely... You gotta have somewhat of a bankroll to get started... But that's pretty true in any business.

The other dilemma is you can't hire the crew until you have the work, and you can't get the work until you have the crew...

I think the BMW and Mercedes comes way later... :cool:
 

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