Okay you timber experts

[Jon]

If a timber floor blew because it got wet do any of you think it would be able to be relaid when it dries out without trimming the timber again around the walls. What I am really asking is once a piece of timber has got dimensionally bigger will it every go back to its original size. eg say a 4x2 expands to 4 and/16 x 2 and 1/16. Will it ever go back to be 4 x 2 again?

 

[Dan]

I would expect an uninstalled board to return to near it's original size.

Many times I've seen uninstalled flooring that has gained moisture from high RH return to it's original width when it dries, only to have a fit tight at the tongue and groove. It still fit, just rather tight. This was believed to be due to grain raise.

With installed material it may be a different story. If this floor has buckled there is the possibility that edge crush exists and the individual boards could shrink to a size smaller than the milled width.

Jon, tell us more about the floor and incident. Oh, and pictures. We like pictures.

 

[Jon]

This was actually a vinyl job, full spread, laid by others July 2010 which had a water leak from the plumbing which wasn't noticed for a long length of time which lay under the particleboard sub floor on the ground
Seven months later an area of vinyl against a kitchen unit bubbled and was repaired
Another 4 months past and bubbles arrived over joins in the sheets of particleboard
There was a comment by another layer that bubbles in the vinyl could be caused by the vinyl been cut in that tiny fraction too tight or by moisture causing the skirting boards to swell forcing the vinyl to bubble
His other comment which I strongly disagree with is "He would have expected to have seen a gap between the vinyl edge and the skirting board having the skirting board shrunk since drying out" To me in that case why hasn't the vinyl laid flat again? If the bubble was there earlier, why wasn't it noticed when the layer returned to repair the bubble by the kitchen unit? Maybe it wasn't there then?

From my experience of laying these plastic backed vinyls is that anything the layer does wrong due to the vinyl being cut in that fraction too tight, that ball point pen thickness, will bubble 10 minutes after the layer leaves. Anything which happens months later is not a laying problem
This is the reason I would like to know from you timber guys is this able to happen as you are more likely to understand the science of timber more than me
To me the water vapor from the plumbing leak has risen from the wet earth under the house and made the particleboard get dimensionally bigger across the sheets pushing the vinyl up over the joins in the particleboard and also causing bubbles around the skirting boards. The skirting boards do not sit on top of the vinyl. The vinyl is cut in neat
There were moisture readings taken by this layer and the readings were dry. Which I would have expected as it is over the 19 months since it was laid and the air movement under the house would have dried everything out
What do you guys reckon?

 

[TNT]

This was actually a vinyl job, full spread, laid by others July 2010 which had a water leak from the plumbing which wasn't noticed for a long length of time which lay under the particleboard sub floor on the ground
Seven months later an area of vinyl against a kitchen unit bubbled and was repaired
Another 4 months past and bubbles arrived over joins in the sheets of particleboard
There was a comment by another layer that bubbles in the vinyl could be caused by the vinyl been cut in that tiny fraction too tight or by moisture causing the skirting boards to swell forcing the vinyl to bubble
His other comment which I strongly disagree with is "He would have expected to have seen a gap between the vinyl edge and the skirting board having the skirting board shrunk since drying out" To me in that case why hasn't the vinyl laid flat again? If the bubble was there earlier, why wasn't it noticed when the layer returned to repair the bubble by the kitchen unit? Maybe it wasn't there then?

From my experience of laying these plastic backed vinyls is that anything the layer does wrong due to the vinyl being cut in that fraction too tight, that ball point pen thickness, will bubble 10 minutes after the layer leaves. Anything which happens months later is not a laying problem
This is the reason I would like to know from you timber guys is this able to happen as you are more likely to understand the science of timber more than me
To me the water vapor from the plumbing leak has risen from the wet earth under the house and made the particleboard get dimensionally bigger across the sheets pushing the vinyl up over the joins in the particleboard and also causing bubbles around the skirting boards. The skirting boards do not sit on top of the vinyl. The vinyl is cut in neat
There were moisture readings taken by this layer and the readings were dry. Which I would have expected as it is over the 19 months since it was laid and the air movement under the house would have dried everything out
What do you guys reckon?

Upon reading this, I reckon that there was a variance in the setting of the adhesive at one point compared to another. If all was cut properly, but the adhesive wasn't set at the same point all over when the floor was laid, the vinyl will move at one place, yet not the other.

Tia

 

[Jon]

Tia I haven't actually seen this job but what I am really asking once a timber product gets wet and expands will it ever go back to the original size
What have found is once it gets wet it will always be larger
If a timber floor is laid then gets wet it will never go back down unless it is trimmed
I just don't know enough about the science of timber

 

[Dan]

Jon, My earlier comments were in regards to solid wood products. In post #3 you mentioned particle board, which I have limited experience with.

 

[Jon]

Jon, My earlier comments were in regards to solid wood products. In post #3 you mentioned particle board, which I have limited experience with.

But it is still a natural product made up of wood. The skirting boards are probually MDF as well

 

[TNT]

Particle and solid are soooo different in the way they accept moisture from adhesive. Solid timber may go back, I've seen that happen. But, particle will probably never go back. It contains too small of bits which are affected in a million adverse ways by the swelling. The bits can't reconnect properly.

Tia

 

[Jon]

Here is a picture I took years ago showing what happens when there is a lake under the house. One side of the photo shows the area which is under the carpet and th left side which was under the vinyl. Notice how the gap has closed up under the vinyl area
I reckon that gap will never open up again after the floor dries out
I could be wrong though. The same with the MDF skirting boards, once they have swollen they will never shrink back to the original size

 

[TNT]

Here is a picture I took years ago showing what happens when there is a lake under the house. One side of the photo shows the area which is under the carpet and th left side which was under the vinyl. Notice how the gap has closed up under the vinyl area
I reckon that gap will never open up again after the floor dries out
I could be wrong though. The same with the MDF skirting boards, once they have swollen they will never shrink back to the original size

I'm so glad to see how particular you are, because that doesn't look so bad. My story is this ... I lived in a 100-yr-old home with 12" baseboards. So, we were preparing for a camping trip and I filled a 5-gallon jug full of water, put it in my front room. It leaked overnight. My baseboard pulled several inches off the wall in that area. Crap, I was devastated. We went camping for the weekend, and when we came back home, it was all back to normal. It must have dried and gone back.

Tia

PS ~ Thank goodness for floor prep compounds!

 

[Jon]

Here is a photo of another job where there is subfloor movement due to moisture
I don't think those bubbles will never lay flat again as the particleboard will not shrink back to the orginal size when it dries out

 

[TNT]

Here is a photo of another job where there is subfloor movement due to moisture
I don't think those bubbles will never lay flat again as the particleboard will not shrink back to the orginal size when it dries out

Those won't go down.

Tia

 

[framer52]

paticlar board when wet, never goes back to original size again. Regular wood does.

I am not sure of the science of this, except I believe it has to do with the glue.

i would assume that is why we are instructed to never lay it over particle board......