Preferred method for prepping hardwood install

[highup]

Rather than floor filler, are layers of 15 or 30 lb felt preferable for filling low spots when doing a solid nail down? I know it dries a lot faster.
I'm going to be helping a friend install some 3/4 inch oak in a week or two. It's a dining room and living room and possibly a short connected hallway with a closet. I haven't done any nail down before, but he wants my assistance on the project.
I'm heading over there today to get a refresher on the layout and check it for flatness.
It's a ranch style home and the rooms are two rectangles around 13 X 25 and 13 X 14 on opposing sides of the house. I'm also wondering if we ought to start in the center of the house and work towards each outside wall, splining it in the middle.
The job will be done in sections and as time allows. He'd like to get one room completed, then do the other one so he has a place for furniture. It has to be sectioned off because he has two cats. The floor will be stained and finished. It's unfinished oak with a micro-bevel edge. Once installed, I assume all it needs is a light sanding before finishing.
It might be a week or more between the two halves, so that's why I'm asking about starting in the center and working outwards.
My questions for now are mostly about the best or most common leveling methods and whether or not to start in the center and work outwards.

 

[eric248]

I don't use felt, depends on how LOW the spot or area is, I find roofing shingles or thermoply ( Denny board) can take care of any area

 

[Nick]

depends on how LOW the spot or area is. I use shingles , felt , and rosin paper to feather it out .

Let us know the size of the wood so we can give you the correct nailing pattern .

PS: I like to start in the center when possible . The angle of the staple is only going to let the wood expand one way .

 

[highup]

depends on how LOW the spot or area is. I use shingles , felt , and rosin paper to feather it out .

Let us know the size of the wood so we can give you the correct nailing pattern .

PS: I like to start in the center when possible . The angle of the staple is only going to let the wood expand one way .

Most low spots ended up being minor......... 1/8 inch or so. Boards are white oak, 2 1/4 inches wide. ........do I have to draw you a picture? OK OK

I knew there was a reason I wanted to start in the center, thanks. The board are mostly shorts. He had a box opened up and the longest boards looked to be less than three feet.
They are unfinished, but finish sanded, and have a micro-bevel. I know they will probably need a gentle finish sanding before the stain and finish goes on. I think it's gonna look nice. Looks to be a couple weeks off.

 

[Nick]

Nailing pattern - 1 to 3" at end joints , and 10 to 12" in the field .

 

[highup]

Nailing pattern - 1 to 3" at end joints , and 10 to 12" in the field .

....so how many nails in a 6 inch board? One or three? I said they were shorts. I think he got this at a box store about three years ago............ It's been in the dinning room the whole time. I think it's getting really close to being fully acclimated. Another two weeks and I think it will be right on.

Here's the layout:
The red 'spray paint" shows where "flat" ends in this dining room area. Pulling a string, you can see the floor is flat to this point, then drops off 1/8" to 5/8" over the next 5 or 6 feet. Hard to fix an angle in the floor slope.
This same issue doesn't occur on the other side of the house. (lower portion)
I think with the planks being so short, that they will conform and that we can get away with a lot going over this area. Making it truly flat would be major and we are not trying to make a silk purse.
I think that we can improve it with a few tricks like grinding the center of the floor down an eight of an inch and possibly adding a 6 foot run of heavy sheet goods on the left side of the room to help make a long curve out of this angle change. ...........just glue it down and feather it out towards the angle in the center.
He's fine with whatever we end up doing.

The blue spots are a little low, but they are in easy areas to deal with. The overall floor is flatter than I expected. It all needs renailing or screwing before the wood goes down.

 

[Nick]

By a 6" board , do you mean in length , or width ?

 

[Ernesto]

I can send ya the newest install guidelines if you want.


Wood Flooring Type Fastener to be used Fastener spacing
Solid Strip T&G
¾” x less than 3”
11/2”-2” fastener, or 6d-8d casing or
finish nails.
On slab with ¾”
underlayment, use 11/2” fastener
Blind fastener spacing along the
lengths of the strips, minimum two
fasteners per piece near the ends
(1-3”). In addition, every 8-10” apart
for blind nailing, 10-12” for face
nailing.

 

[highup]

By a 6" board , do you mean in length , or width ?

ooops, in my attempt at humor (a 6 inch l-o-n-g board), I forgot to say 2 1/4" wide.
Out of the box that he already has split open, I don't recall any boards being 3 foot long. Maybe there are some longer boards in the box and in the other boxes, but from what I see, many of what I saw are relatively short. .......say 14 to 30 inches?

I can send ya the newest install guidelines if you want.


Wood Flooring Type Fastener to be used Fastener spacing
Solid Strip T&G
¾” x less than 3”
11/2”-2” fastener, or 6d-8d casing or
finish nails.
On slab with ¾”
underlayment, use 11/2” fastener
Blind fastener spacing along the
lengths of the strips, minimum two
fasteners per piece near the ends
(1-3”). In addition, every 8-10” apart
for blind nailing, 10-12” for face
nailing.

That would be great. Ya got my email.

 

[Floorist]

Sounds like the wood came from Liquid Lumberdators. They are notorious for shorts.

 

[highup]

Sounds like the wood came from Liquid Lumberdators. They are notorious for shorts.

....or Home Depot. He bought em out of town. We don't have either store within 120 miles. I like the looks of shorts personally. Takes a lot more time to install for sure.

 

[Nick]

You're not suspose to use ant boards shorter then one foot . Two nails .

 

[DarisMulkin]

You're not suspose to use ant boards shorter then one foot . Two nails .

My whole house is shorts with one nail-------finish nil at that. Think that is the reason I have squeaky floors?

Daris

 

[Ken]

I like using vinyl rems for leveling for hardwood where I cant use additional plywood or luan.

 

[Ernesto]

ooops, in my attempt at humor (a 6 inch l-o-n-g board), I forgot to say 2 1/4" wide.
Out of the box that he already has split open, I don't recall any boards being 3 foot long. Maybe there are some longer boards in the box and in the other boxes, but from what I see, many of what I saw are relatively short. .......say 14 to 30 inches?


That would be great. Ya got my email.

I do? Oh yea I think I do. mañana.

 

[highup]

I do? Oh yea I think I do. mañana.

If ya don't have it, just email me and I'll send it to ya.
Not a big rush. I'm sure it'l be two weeks before we start.

 

[woodguy]

....so how many nails in a 6 inch board? One or three?
two. One 2 inches from each end.
I said they were shorts. I think he got this at a box store about three years ago............ It's been in the dinning room the whole time. I think it's getting really close to being fully acclimated. Another two weeks and I think it will be right on.
Should be plenty wet by now.

Here's the layout:
The red 'spray paint" shows where "flat" ends in this dining room area. Pulling a string, you can see the floor is flat to this point, then drops off 1/8" to 5/8" over the next 5 or 6 feet. Hard to fix an angle in the floor slope.
This same issue doesn't occur on the other side of the house. (lower portion)
I think with the planks being so short, that they will conform and that we can get away with a lot going over this area. Making it truly flat would be major and we are not trying to make a silk purse.
I think that we can improve it with a few tricks like grinding the center of the floor down an eight of an inch and possibly adding a 6 foot run of heavy sheet goods on the left side of the room to help make a long curve out of this angle change. ...........just glue it down and feather it out towards the angle in the center.
He's fine with whatever we end up doing.

The blue spots are a little low, but they are in easy areas to deal with. The overall floor is flatter than I expected. It all needs renailing or screwing before the wood goes down.

Start against the longest outside wall, leaving an even 1/2" space. No leveling necessary with those shorts. Sanding? No more than 100 grit screen on a buffer. The toughest part will be getting the dust out of the bevels afterwards. You do realize that you can't buy good stain or finish from a big box store? Anymore than you can buy quality lumber.
try to talk a hardwood distributor into selling you the proper materials.
Or break down and spend a few extra pennies to buy it from a professional. maybe he will give you a few finishing tips.

 

[highup]

Start against the longest outside wall, leaving an even 1/2" space. No leveling necessary with those shorts. Sanding? No more than 100 grit screen on a buffer. The toughest part will be getting the dust out of the bevels afterwards. You do realize that you can't buy good stain or finish from a big box store? Anymore than you can buy quality lumber.
try to talk a hardwood distributor into selling you the proper materials.
Or break down and spend a few extra pennies to buy it from a professional. maybe he will give you a few finishing tips.

I appreciate that info. I think he was planning an off the shelf stain like Benjamin Moore.


I have helped a pro a couple times to clean and vacuum down the window casings, walls and floor. I know how thorough this needs to be. My 16 gallon shop vac does a great job and I have a good 20 feet or so of hose which enables the vac to remain outside while working.
The pro that I'm talking about, prefers a natural finish rather than a stained one. Helping him once to apply the stain told me why. It was a dark stain............. Him applying and me wiping........... wow, what a workout. Ya need to move fast from one end of the house to the other without a break.
You gotta get it right so the color comes out even.

I am guessing a floor stain behaves better (more controllable) than an off the shelf stain?

I just now had a concern about how the stain behaves with that micro bevel when wiping the stain off. It's a very small bevel. I assume the stain won't wipe off as completely in those little bevels and the individual boards will become more emphasized than on a full fledged sanded floor.
I appreciate the input.

As far as the finish goes. I'm assuming that a finish like Deft or Varathane isn't a good route to go........... may I ask why not?

The homeowner is a jack of all trades and master of most anything he does. A unique individual. He decided to rebuild the tranny in his 1 ton Dodge diesel. He did that so it would hold up under the strain of the new fuel injectors, the larger fuel flow restrictors, and turbo.
(800+lbs of torque and 22 mpg, Ernesto )
He can repair, prep and paint a car so the finish looks like a factory one. His metal welds looks like they were delivered from a caulking tube. He's an electrician by trade. We will work well together on this flooring job.
Thanks, woodguy

 

[ernie]

I appreciate that info. I think he was planning an off the shelf stain like Benjamin Moore.


I have helped a pro a couple times to clean and vacuum down the window casings, walls and floor. I know how thorough this needs to be. My 16 gallon shop vac does a great job and I have a good 20 feet or so of hose which enables the vac to remain outside while working.
The pro that I'm talking about, prefers a natural finish rather than a stained one. Helping him once to apply the stain told me why. It was a dark stain............. Him applying and me wiping........... wow, what a workout. Ya need to move fast from one end of the house to the other without a break.
You gotta get it right so the color comes out even.

I am guessing a floor stain behaves better (more controllable) than an off the shelf stain?

I just now had a concern about how the stain behaves with that micro bevel when wiping the stain off. It's a very small bevel. I assume the stain won't wipe off as completely in those little bevels and the individual boards will become more emphasized than on a full fledged sanded floor.
I appreciate the input.

As far as the finish goes. I'm assuming that a finish like Deft or Varathane isn't a good route to go........... may I ask why not?

The homeowner is a jack of all trades and master of most anything he does. A unique individual. He decided to rebuild the tranny in his 1 ton Dodge diesel. He did that so it would hold up under the strain of the new fuel injectors, the larger fuel flow restrictors, and turbo.
(800+lbs of torque and 22 mpg, Ernesto )
He can repair, prep and paint a car so the finish looks like a factory one. His metal welds looks like they were delivered from a caulking tube. He's an electrician by trade. We will work well together on this flooring job.
Thanks, woodguy

And he dors not always drink beer, but when he does it is always Does Equis. Lol

 

[highup]

........he doesn't waste money on high $$$ beer. Money saved is better spent on motorcycles, vehicles and tools. He's smart too.