VOCs from LVP

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Dlass

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2024
Messages
6
Location
Dripping Springs, TX
I'm replacing a many decades-old vinyl/linoleum floor in a 600 square foot living area, and have pretty much decided that Luxury Vinyl Plank (LVP) is what I'm looking for. More suitable than other options. One thing that concerns me is VOCs, which I gather are emitted from both the planks and the adhesive. Now, I will do this in the fall where, in my climate, the house can be open continuously and the house fan on for a few weeks, but still ... I hear it said that there are LVPs that are manufactured to minimize VOCs, and some adhesives are better as well. Would appreciate getting some brand names - LVPs that I can choose for the job, and adhesives that I can suggest to my contractor.
 
OK, I think the answer is FloorScore Certification.
https://www.scsglobalservices.com/services/floorscore
https://www.scsglobalservices.com/certified-green-products-guide?category=63+124+943&program=25
and for that matter, there is the GreenGuard Certification as well.
Both GreenGuard and FloorScore certification meet the OSHA standard for VOCs. There is a GreenGuard Gold, which is half the VOC of regular Green Guard, but that's mainly for schools and health care facilities. Not clear that's available for residential use. Need to make sure the product I purchase meets these certs, and the contractor is using adhesives that abide by them. There is one brand - Proximity Mills, I believe, that allegedly has zero VOCs.
 
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OK, I think the answer is FloorScore Certification.
https://www.scsglobalservices.com/services/floorscore
https://www.scsglobalservices.com/certified-green-products-guide?category=63+124+943&program=25
and for that matter, there is the GreenGuard Certification as well.
Both GreenGuard and FloorScore certification meet the OSHA standard for VOCs. There is a GreenGuard Gold, which is half the VOC of regular Green Guard, but that's mainly for schools and health care facilities. Not clear that's available for residential use. Need to make sure the product I purchase meets these certs, and the contractor is using adhesives that abide by them. There is one brand - Proximity Mills, I believe, that allegedly has zero VOCs.
It's all pretty highly technical on the level you're looking for. Very, very few installers, sales/retailers, marketing departments, distributors would have a scientific understanding of how, what, when, where and why such products could be determined safe and green.

So we're left to trust sources like you cite above. I dont trust them.
 
I'm not asking for a scientific understanding. I'm just asking for certification from those that DO have scientific understanding. OK, why don't you trust FloorScore and GreenGuard? Do you have some scientific understanding that they don't? That's precisely WHY there is FloorScore and GreenGuard. Because of the valid assumption is that most of us don't have that understanding. If this is about trust, your qualifications for judgement would be appreciated.
 
I'm not asking for a scientific understanding. I'm just asking for certification from those that DO have scientific understanding. OK, why don't you trust FloorScore and GreenGuard? Do you have some scientific understanding that they don't? That's precisely WHY there is FloorScore and GreenGuard. Because of the valid assumption is that most of us don't have that understanding. If this is about trust, your qualifications for judgement would be appreciated.
As Quality Control and Site Safety and Health Officer my job was to submit all the materials to be used on government and military construction projects for review and approval by the customer's QC. I was also exposed to pretty much every and any hazards more specifically in our industry over my ~35 year as a commercial installer/foreman. I've been retired about a year and a half now.

From my own admittedly casual research and specific related experiences I am more and more skeptical of these various agencies our corporations and ultimately citizens rely on to "greenwash" their products.
 
Thank you. That's fair. But I really don't have anything else to go on. I asked for suggestions about products with low VOC. Can you point me to some reliable source? Now, it is written that these certifications are consistent with OSHA regulations. I trust OSHA. Are you saying you don't trust the labwork done to do these certifications? As in, their VOC measurements are simply wrong?
 
I'm sure the science is accurate. But I dont really know what that implies. Mostly I dont trust the industry to represent the science TO ME in a way that I can use.

By the way, my son is a scientist as was my father. They both have explained to me how their work CANT be easily explained to laymen. Less so for my dad who made actual metals and materials in his lab------like coinage and bullets. But my son's lab is biomolecular physics-----Integrative Structural and Computational Biology

So after I paid over a hundred grand to get him his degree I don't even know what the heck he does with it!!!
 

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Thanks. I'm a scientist/engineer as it turns out, so I respect the kind of work that this involves, but it's true, that if it is some certification set up by the industries that make the product, one might be a little suspicious about it.
 
I unwrapped a carpet remnant ( plastic wrap) over this past weekend. It’s been resting in its VOC juices for years. It was scientifically designed to tolerate moisture by giving the backing a shinny black vinyl coating 🥴🤢 …. I have a customer looking for indoor, outdoor for his back porch, but I’m apprehensive to sell him a chemically laden one. It won’t grow mold but it may not be too pleasant eating breakfast in there.

Here’s my unscientific opinion on Life Proof Flooring. The apartment complex I install carpet for, has been installing LVP in newly renovated Lr,Dr, kitchen areas and my VOC NOSE ALARM hasn’t gone off yet. My carpet and pad give off more 😪 …. Good luck on your search 🔍

🎶 Rocket Man, and all the science I don’t understand, it’s just my job five days a week 🎶 😉
 
I'll share with you what I feel is as accurate of information as I've been able to ascertain over the past 29 years.

The market is currently flooded with LVP/LVT products that are primarily sourced from Asia (China, Vietnam, Malayasia, South Korea, and most recently India). The large manufacturers of these products work with manufacturing partners in those countries to produce their products. There are different models that these manufacturers follow. Some provide the manufacturing plant with specific specifications and have "boots on the ground" in those plants making sure that the specifications are being met. Some go to the manufacturing plant and say "give me what you make standard and put these patterns on it". Some oversight, but they primarily rely on the honesty of their Asian partner to manufacture the product to the emissions standards required. Last, there are an absolute glut of small importers, primarily larger flooring retailers here in the U.S. that make contact with an Asian partner at a trade show here in the U.S. and there are Asian manufactures who have "turnkey" operations where they will provide you with the product, do the marketing under your trade name, ship the product, and so on. These guys have very little "skin" in the game. They are simply paying to put their name on the box. Then they portray themselves, pretty stealthily in many cases, to be the direct manufacturer of the product. In trying to answer questions for customers as a resource, I've found some of these guys whose "Corporate Headquarters" when googled is a package receptacle at a UPS store in a strip mall in Georgia.

Most major manufacturers (Armstrong, Mannington, Mohawk, & Shaw for sure) manufacture their products to meet SCAQMD (South Coast Air Quality Management District) standards. These are the California regulations that govern VOC's for that state. In order to sell any product in the state of California, you must comply with their minimums or you simply cannot sell products there. These standards are more stringent than the federal standards, so essentially they are the DeFacto standards our industry complies with. No one's going to not try and sell products in the 5th largest economy in the world, right, wrong, or indifferent.

VOC's in LVP/LVT primarily come from the esters (oils) that are used in the product to provide flexibility. Thus, going with a "dry-back", also known as a glue-down, product will have more (esters) than a rigid product such as an SPC or a WPC.

If we look at a fairly common formulation for glue-down LVP, in many cases these products are going to be 70-90% PVC and the bulk of the remainder will be binder and filler (primarily clay). SPC is nearly the opposite with a 15-20% PVC content and the remainder being stone dust (typically limestone but other stones are also being used such as marble). WPC is kind of between the two at about 50-50, but WPC typically has air entrained into the core to provide sound deadening and a thicker, but lighter product.

Since esters form week covalent bonds that can be broken leading to a release of VOC's, then going with a more rigid product eliminates the potential for VOC's to occur. BUT, it is critical to remember that with the manufacturers I've listed, none of them come close to the SQAQMD minimums and in many cases the amount of VOC's from the product are nearly unmeasurable.

I would also be remiss if I didn't add that there are companies who manufacture these products with non-PVC alternatives. Many of them are European manufacturers who take a different view of PVC than we do here in the U.S. However, my experience with those products has been that they have their own set of issues that can cause problems and many of them don't have the sustainability of the products with PVC and must be replaced much more often.

I can try and provide further information if you have specific questions, but hopefully this gives you enough to make a decision without fearing your decision might impact your health. Trust me when I say that there are a mountain of lawyers who would be suing these companies into non-existence as well as FloorScore if the testing was being "fudged". Google Lumber Liquidators Cancer Lawsuit and you'll see what I mean.
 
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Excellent info. Thank you. Not sure I understand about "flexibility" and glue-down. Why does a "glue-down need any flexibility at all? At least as opposed to peel-and-stick, which needs to be bent to apply properly.
 
Only difference between peel n stick and glue down LVP, aside from quality, is when and where the adhesive is applied.

They both need flexibility otherwise how are they going to contour and adhere to the substrate.
 
Excellent info. Thank you. Not sure I understand about "flexibility" and glue-down. Why does a "glue-down need any flexibility at all? At least as opposed to peel-and-stick, which needs to be bent to apply properly.
Physics alway wins.

No matter how good a flooring mechanic is, there will always be variations in the flatness of a subfloor. Some of these are there due to expansion and contraction during the seasonal changes in the structure. The product has to be flexible enough to handle these minor variations to be able to bond it to the substrate.

There is also ALWAYS movement inherent in any built structure. Depending on the mix, a concrete slab can expand and contract up to an inch in a 20' span with seasonal changes. That's why there are movement and control joints in concrete. Movement joints allow for this expansion and contraction to occur and control joints help control where cracking occurs and give them a "weak" spot to follow when cracking occurs. (Notice I said "when" not if, all concrete cracks due to movement over time). Wood also expands and contracts seasonally, but at a much different rate than concrete and depending on how the wood substrate is constructed it can be faster or slower.

Due to minor floor flatness irregularities and thermal expansion and contraction, if directly adhered flooring wasn't flexible it would have a litany of problems - popping off the floor, cracking and buckling, gapping, etc.

To broaden the scope a little and provide another example, this is also why the TCNA (Tile Council of North America) states in their porcelain and stone installation guidelines that all movement joints MUST be honored from the substrate all the way through the installation of the product. You can't stop that movement.

This is also why it's necessary to leave expansion space around floating floors such the current SPC & WPC luxury vinyl plank and tile products as well as laminates and engineered hardwoods that are installed using a floating method.

Hope that gives some insight.
 

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