How long do you think it would take to do these steps. The bottom one is a birdcage that has to be a waterfall. Remember they are being judged.
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- Thread starter DarisMulkin
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I've never even done a birdcage.
That looks sharp. Is the curve sewn from the top?
Looks a lot like the Carpet Journeyman test for my union. There was a candy stripe carpet and in addition to the stairs they wanted some sewn seams on the flat area with pattern match and a few different types of stiching. I never took it as I passed the Hard Surface/Cove Journeyman test. Both tests allowed 4 hours for the manipulative portion and 4 hours for the written tests.
I think I could get that done in 6-8 hours.
I think I could get that done in 6-8 hours.
Daris are you the judge
?In my mind , those steps are 5 hours, but realistically for a real job estimate,
probably 10 ….. when and where ?
By the way, is that your handy work, looks great
There were 3 of us judges me being one. We would find a problem and give them a chance to repair it. Remember they started with bare wood so all prep work had to be done also. the only sewing was on the birdcage and was done from the back. I believe the fastest done was like 11 hours. The landing portion where it curves around gave them the most trouble. But let me tell you they were very diligent and worked threw it.
I keep staring but I can't wrap my head around sewing the curve and into the birdcage. Pretty neat.
Ok, I'm assuming a pattern...... gotta be a pattern.
Ok, I'm assuming a pattern...... gotta be a pattern.
There’s a few ways you can do it. Template, mathematical, or just have at it like an artist. The sewn bullnose waterfall style has died out and is quite rare around here, but when it’s needed, it’s a great skill to have. I’ve yet to do a full wall to wall one, but remember this one I did a few years ago.
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That is because no one knows how to do it. They only know to cap and band it, staple gun jockeys.
Yep that too. When I was learning the trade, the mechanics had me remove all the tackless and the stair nose moldings, to prepare the stairs for ‘ cap and band ‘ style.
Did some of those in the 80s in old Victorian houses in KC. Walker paid very little to do them. I think $25 per birdcage.
Decent money back then, but yes could have been more, what would they pay today ? …. Hey, Did his children take over the business ? And is Ed Braile still working for them ? I was a CFI member for appx 5 years or so back in the 90’s and really enjoyed speaking and learning from Jim and mostly Ed …..and talking about his baseball passion. Do you get together with them Rusty ?
I did not like working for Jim. Not my favorite person. I managed another store later on and had some dealings with him. Those were not favorable either. I worked there in the 80s.
There was a shortage of installers, as usual. Several of the store owners got together to discuss ideas. Walker, Mathews (Carpet Corner) Clark, (Carpet Center, my boss) and a few others. Jim Clark was the one who suggested a training school for installers, but it did not go far at the meetings. That would have been early 80s. Walker wanted anyone they trained to be bound by contract to the store that trained them for 5 years and at less than the going wage.
I also installed for Mathews at Carpet Corner for a few years. They had 35 crews so they could promise next day installation. First 15 crews would get a full day. Next 10 would get a fairly good day. Last 10 crews would get the scraps.
Also worked for Big Bob's installing wovens. He had some winos that installed the used carpet. He sold a lot of used carpet.
Had my own store in Buckner Mo. for 5 years before I decided to move back to my hometown. I knew everyone here and stayed busy.
I am jealous of a local guy, Dean Brown, he is 83 and still installing.
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The Walkers are basically figureheads now. WFCA took over CFI and Dave Garden is the man in charge. Ed Braille is retired helping out friends, refuses to fly anymore. The Walkers only had one son and he is into other things.The Walkers live in Colorado now.
Does that mean I have 20 more years to go ? O NO ! …. I want to be jealous with you Rusty, but I get it, because there’s nothing else quite like being down, up close and personal with our trade, until we die….. The next best thing, if our bodies don’t let us, is talking about it here and hopefully help out younger installers come into their own…..I thank you Admin. Rusty and everyone else for giving us this opportunity.
Thanks Daris, it’s nice knowing about flooring celebrities like Jimmy Walker. Not an easy undertaking but I believe has made a huge impact. I hope they are doing well.
Hey, did he find a buyer to keep his business going ?
A very interesting idea, but usually restrictions are perceived as controlling. I understand the intention, but maybe an outside the box method would go smoother
Do you remember the outcome or did the plan never become reality. Off the top, maybe have no restrictions on the trained installers, but maybe some type of pay back program from one contractor to the other, to recoup training expenses …. Usually a free market equals out for everyone as they locate their individual market.
Hey Daris. Whatever happened to Jim's brother?
The other stores would not go along with Walker's idea, so it was dropped. The stores' managers/owners never met again as far as I know. I was the manager at Indep. Carpet Center, so I was at that meeting along with Jim Clark, my store's owner. The idea was to send trainees out with current installers to learn and the store to pick up part of the salary. It would not have worked because most of the installers already had a trained helper they would not give up and had no room to haul a 3rd person and no need for one.Thanks Daris, it’s nice knowing about flooring celebrities like Jimmy Walker. Not an easy undertaking but I believe has made a huge impact. I hope they are doing well.
Hey, did he find a buyer to keep his business going ?
A very interesting idea, but usually restrictions are perceived as controlling. I understand the intention, but maybe an outside the box method would go smoother
For example, I had the same helper/installer for 10 years and we could install 100 yards of stretch-in, in a new house in 4 hours or less. I only had room in my van for the two of us. He was my best friend for years. Two man crews were the norm.
Good idea, but complicated. Probably the beginning of his master plan of CFI and the adopted mantra “ If it’s to be, it’s up to me “ and like minded individuals.
I often pleaded with my father to designate me as the trainer for new helpers. To schedule a half day of work , and break even or possibly lose money in the hope to gain and maintain consistency of service. It too was well received as needed but never Implemented
….. Us poor mechanics had to complete 80 yards and teach at the same time. …. Most mechanics were able to keep up, but not poor mononucleosis Mike So that was the end of employment with the family business and the beginning of Self proprietorship ( 1099 ) for the Family business. Me, dad and brothers had trials and tribulations Mon through Fri. But when the weekend came, with swimming, horseshoes , volleyball etc. and !! dads Michelob 
all was good thank God we never let anything said or done stick very long …... Thanks for the therapy dumping session 
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Yeah MSLI, your suggestion is pretty much how indentured servitude was structured. In the Olden Days if you tried to "steal" the blacksmith's apprentice he could take you and your "Boy" to court and either force that worker to return or collect compensation.A very interesting idea, but usually restrictions are perceived as controlling. I understand the intention, but maybe an outside the box method would go smoother
Usually a free market leads to individuals and groups colluding to "Corner the Market" Free markets are an ideal. In reality there is and will always be collusion of interests. That's the reason workers form unions and it works where it works and of course doesn't always find a place in every circumstance. In many instances International Unions are inappropriate. In other instances workers really NEED unions but powerful local/national/international interests overwhelm your free markets and prevent the workers from organizing.
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How many CFI people know the original plan? They sent out a video to watch. If you watched it and sent them $25 , you were certified.
Not big on unions. I was a member so the Steelworkers. They did nothing for us. And I remember when we were on strike, the only union to NOT honor our picket line was the Teamsters. We missed 3 weeks. If you took the 25 cents an hour raise and totaled it for the 3 years of the contract, it was less than the amount we lost while on strike.
There was only one store in the KC area that used union installers. They could not keep their 3 installers busy. And the rules were terrible for residential customers. The installers had to pack up at 4 pm, so if they had an hour's work left, the customer was inconvenienced for another day.
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